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When these "scientists" can get lions to stop eating gazelles, I'll stop eating cows, chickens, and fish. That being said, I am concerned about how animals are

When these "scientists" can get lions to stop eating gazelles, I'll stop eating cows, chickens, and fish. That being said, I am concerned about how animals are treated during their lifetime.

mrspeaker 13y ago
Yeah, stupid "scientists". That's why I refuse to poop in a toilet, and won't use antibiotics: 'cause the gazelles aren't doing it.
- IanDrake 13y ago
  I get what you're saying we're more advanced than animals. That's why we domesticated our prey, which is what everyone seems to be complaining about now.
dharmach 13y ago
When consuming resources and producing pollution, you do not remember this comparison. Besides, animals kill to eat, not to sell.
- vacri 13y ago
  If it's the selling that's bad, isn't the same true of plant matter? Most of us also outsource obtaining vegetable matter in the same way.
- IanDrake 13y ago
  >Besides, animals kill to eat, not to sell. I don't understand. Ultimately it ends up in someone's stomach and provides sustenance. How is it any different?
tladendo 13y ago
At present, ethically-raised animal meat is not practical on a mass scale. Also, this is a ridiculous justification for meat eating, since lions cannot reason about morality.
- sageikosa 13y ago
  Only the slaughter needs to be ethically managed; no excessive, prolonged nor unnecessary pain. Animal cruelty is usually an indicator of sociopathy, and its presentation in other humans is likely a danger signal to the rest of us; as the person probably lacks, or has low, empathy. If both lions and gazelles have conscious awareness, and we do not condemn the lion for eating a fellow conscious awareness holder, then why should we hold ourselves to higher standards? If we believe that the taking of any conscious life is wrong, then we should see that the lion is wrong, and punish him. Lion prison anyone?
- IanDrake 13y ago
  >Also, this is a ridiculous justification for meat eating, since lions cannot reason about morality. I'm unclear what level of moral justification is needed. I want to survive. There are weaker animals for me to eat. My gut can process their meat. My teeth can rip their flesh. I guess I haven't transcended nature and evolution the way vegetarians have.
  - tladendo 13y ago
    >> I'm unclear what level of moral justification is needed. I want to survive. There are weaker animals for me to eat. These two statements do not have a direct and necessary relationship, since "eating weaker animals" is not required for our survival or health. Also, you must be a nihilist if you think your actions do not require moral justification. Ethical vegetarians have not and do not claim to have "transcended" anything, and are simply following the dictates of their consciences. Most people, I think, believe that it is wrong to cause unprovoked suffering in another being (who can suffer); ethical vegetarians are just a subset of this group who are more consistent in keeping their actions true to this moral axiom.

When these "scientists" can get lions to stop eating gazelles, I'll stop eating cows, chickens, and fish. That being said, I am concerned about how animals are treated during their lifetime.

mrspeaker 13y ago

Yeah, stupid "scientists". That's why I refuse to poop in a toilet, and won't use antibiotics: 'cause the gazelles aren't doing it.

IanDrake 13y ago
I get what you're saying we're more advanced than animals. That's why we domesticated our prey, which is what everyone seems to be complaining about now.

dharmach 13y ago

When consuming resources and producing pollution, you do not remember this comparison. Besides, animals kill to eat, not to sell.

vacri 13y ago
If it's the selling that's bad, isn't the same true of plant matter? Most of us also outsource obtaining vegetable matter in the same way.
IanDrake 13y ago
>Besides, animals kill to eat, not to sell. I don't understand. Ultimately it ends up in someone's stomach and provides sustenance. How is it any different?

tladendo 13y ago

At present, ethically-raised animal meat is not practical on a mass scale. Also, this is a ridiculous justification for meat eating, since lions cannot reason about morality.

sageikosa 13y ago
Only the slaughter needs to be ethically managed; no excessive, prolonged nor unnecessary pain. Animal cruelty is usually an indicator of sociopathy, and its presentation in other humans is likely a danger signal to the rest of us; as the person probably lacks, or has low, empathy. If both lions and gazelles have conscious awareness, and we do not condemn the lion for eating a fellow conscious awareness holder, then why should we hold ourselves to higher standards? If we believe that the taking of any conscious life is wrong, then we should see that the lion is wrong, and punish him. Lion prison anyone?
IanDrake 13y ago
>Also, this is a ridiculous justification for meat eating, since lions cannot reason about morality. I'm unclear what level of moral justification is needed. I want to survive. There are weaker animals for me to eat. My gut can process their meat. My teeth can rip their flesh. I guess I haven't transcended nature and evolution the way vegetarians have.
- tladendo 13y ago
  >> I'm unclear what level of moral justification is needed. I want to survive. There are weaker animals for me to eat. These two statements do not have a direct and necessary relationship, since "eating weaker animals" is not required for our survival or health. Also, you must be a nihilist if you think your actions do not require moral justification. Ethical vegetarians have not and do not claim to have "transcended" anything, and are simply following the dictates of their consciences. Most people, I think, believe that it is wrong to cause unprovoked suffering in another being (who can suffer); ethical vegetarians are just a subset of this group who are more consistent in keeping their actions true to this moral axiom.