7 ms·

FiftyThree

64 points by mh_ 13y ago

mathattack 13y ago
This jibes with what I've seen. I didn't think phones could generate content, but it was just long text that they struggled with. I don't like typing on a tablet, but my laptop gets smaller and smaller. Good user experience people will find ways to get tools on these devices, with desktops relegated to very heavy lifting. (Anything requiring big screens)
- diydsp 13y ago
  On this note, I really enjoyed Jobs' comparison of development PCs to "trucks." I see myself as a "truck" driver in the future :) With lots of people driving sedans. It makes sense to me. I, too, see the computer hardware world as diverging into "developer" and "commuter/consumer" equipment. I'll spend a few weeks developing, then use the app on my consumer system, just like a trucker drives 40 hours a week for work, then takes car to visit family or a restaurant or amusement park, etc.
MatthewPhillips 13y ago
It's interesting that they seem to be suggesting they will build out an office suite imagined from the beginning for mobile. I had thought of Paper as being for artists but perhaps they aim to go more general purpose.
- deepak-kumar 13y ago
  You mean doodling like this? : https://bubbleideas.com/letters/demo-leave-application https://bubbleideas.com/letters/demo-leave-application
alexobenauer 13y ago
Title would probably be better if it were a bit more descriptive: "FiftyThree, creators of Paper app, raise $15M, plan mobile office suite"
jpdoctor 13y ago
> FiftyThree didn’t need to raise money People tend to believe actions more than words.
gavanwoolery 13y ago
I think the most important thing, if you want a tablet to be productive, is a keyboard that actually suits it. I'm not talking about what we have now, which is basically laptops with detachable keyboards. I envision something you could pick up and type with, like a split keyboard on each side of the tablet. The tricky part to this is creating something you can grip and type with at the same time, but I don't doubt a creative engineer could come up with something (there are one handed keyboards that you can grip and type with effectively, IIRC).
cpdean 13y ago
" Particularly relevant was a project they led at Microsoft called Courier that has been widely praised as a visionary take on tablet computing (unfortunately, Courier was never brought to market)" I thought the Courier was cool when it was presented, and still cool now. I would completely consider getting one if it were priced the same as one of the other tablets.
corresation 13y ago
Note that the Jobs quote is linked, the "skeptic" quote is not. Once against Steve Jobs proves prescient compared to imaginary foes. A tablet with a bluetooth keyboard is what traditionally would be called a laptop, and thanks to several iterations of hardware and software, a modern tablet holds its own. Is anyone seriously arguing that people dismissed the ideas of laptops being productive, or that they thought that the state of tablets wouldn't improve? Tangentially, Paper has got to be the most overhyped application in the history of applications. I mostly ignored it (after falling for the hype and grabbing it and all of the in-app purchases to actually have a marginally useful drawing program), but when they went on the road selling snake-oil about their trivial HSV "paint mixer" I really started to see the negativity in the hype.
- monsterix 13y ago
  > but when they went on the road selling snake-oil about their trivial HSV "paint mixer" I really started to see the negativity in the hype. Why blame the entrepreneur for media hyperbole? Tech media lately is full of hired journalists from traditional(sic) media. Many claim to be tech journos but only a handful understand technology. Guess it's a pattern similar to how mainstream reports on Snowden rather than real issues.
  - corresation 13y ago
    Absolutely true, however they were complicit in the snake oil pitch, offering up quotes that were technically questionable, claiming some innovation that simply didn't exist. The alternate scenario is that some developers churned for a year and then led a manager on about how magical what they created was. http://goo.gl/jItcf http://goo.gl/jItcf
- interpol_p 13y ago
  On Paper being overhyped: I agree that their colour mixer is pretty mediocre, but they certainly nailed the right feeling with most of their drawing tools. It's still the app I go to most when I want to sketch a quick idea or thought process. It actually does what its name suggests and replaces a piece of paper for my use. There's a fluidity and aesthetic to it that no other iPad drawing app has matched yet. You mentioned you bought Paper and all of the in-app purchases — as far as I'm aware, Paper has always been free since launch (you can see this at its App Shopper link http://appshopper.com/productivity/paper-by-fiftythree http://appshopper.com/productivity/paper-by-fiftythree). I think the IAP is fairly priced considering how much use I've gotten out of the app.
danso 13y ago
Congrats to FiftyThree, however, I think that while new kinds of content-creation apps can be created on touch-devices, I don't (/hope) that they replace their precursors. obligatory link to Bret Victor's rant on the limitation of touch interfaces: http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/ http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi... To put it another way: for those of you who program/create via the command line and keyboard shortcuts, could you imagine a touch-setup that would give you more power than what you have with the keyboard? The mouse and GUI hasn't so far...they've added different ways to create content, but arguably these interfaces end up limiting the true power users.
- leephillips 13y ago
  "could you imagine a touch-setup that would give you more power than what you have with the keyboard?" The only way would be if you created a language of touch and gestures, where you could use syntax to build up complex instructions not predetermined by the App maker.
- cpdean 13y ago
  One of the main reasons I use vim daily is it's ability to let me manipulate text in segments of 'text objects'. Its something that lets me feel like I'm grabbing chunks of code and moving them around like contiguous lego-bricks of logic. I want there to be a way to do this with touch screens, but I haven't found it yet. When it happens, though, I may retire my beloved keyboard.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rsl7 13y ago
Good luck to them. In my view, Paper is more of a toy than a useful tool but it's not all their fault. Some will spin this more charitably with something along the lines of 'limitations foster creativity' or something like that. Attempting to really use Paper made me realize something that's been sort of but not really bothering me since the iPad was introduced, and that is I like the tools but the application as a whole sucks. It doesn't make sense to buy a some canvas or a drawing notebook at the art store but be limited to the tools that are bundled with it. That is crazy. Not just crazy but it makes zero sense. I can make a picture on a real piece of paper with literally anything that makes a mark, from coffee to dirt, blood, fruit, chemicals, bricks, burnt sticks (if I want to be classic), water... not to mention folding and crumpling. the digital tablet equivalent to this will require two things. 1. complete separation of the tools from the "paper". And I mean complete. BYOT. Whatever that means. 2. a connection between physical tools and software tools. I am TOTALLY FINE with having five different physical objects to draw on my virtual tablet if it means not having to mess around with someone's idea of a genius menu and tool selection system. Really. I would actually love this so much. Look at a real artists studio: they often look like explosions happened. nobody thinks that fewer tools is better. I can find a physical tool without looking or thinking about it or messing up my train of thought. Menus and gestures and commands and even alphabetization ffs, all that "left brain" stuff is a real drag. 3. stretch objective, not really critical today but maybe 20 years from now, I'd like to have full, realistic multitouch. The day I can, for instance, make a handprint on my virtual tablet is the first day it's going to be able to reproduce detailed human expression. I might be off base on this particular one but I want it. yeah, yeah yeah limitations and all that. digital stuff is totally different. whatever.
- interpol_p 13y ago
  > Paper is more of a toy than a useful tool but it's not all their fault. Some will spin this more charitably with something along the lines of 'limitations foster creativity' or something like that. I have a distinctly opposite experience to you regarding Paper. It was the first app that actually made me start picking up my iPad and using it to get my thoughts down. Part of it is the lack of tools and choices — it's not that they foster creativity, it's that they reduce friction. Paper ships with a few tools that feel very nice, and a few colours that are very well-chosen. Stuff looks great and you don't have to make many decisions, you just focus on getting the idea in your head on the screen with as few obstacles as possible. I believe that's the goal of the app and I think they achieved it. I have many pro drawing tools on the iPad (such as Procreate, which is awesome) but using these is as much an exercise in learning and configuring the tool as it is in generating the content. Sometimes this is useful — when you want to do a piece of final artwork that you have already designed. But Paper to me feels much more like your image of an artist's studio. A disorganised explosion of content where you don't care where it goes so long as it goes out of your head. You don't care about the tools because someone else has made all the right choices. You only care about getting the lines onto paper. I'd prefer it if Paper removed the organisational "sketch books" from the app and simply had it present me a blank piece of paper each time I opened the app. That's all I'm usually looking for when I go to the app. I don't even care if my work is saved because that's irrelevant to working through an idea. These aren't limitations, and I think it's wrong to see them as such.
jgalt212 13y ago
Tablets are for sheep. PCs/laptops are for herders.
ajmarsh 13y ago
Hopefully they will spend some of that money on hiring Android developers. Paper looks cool, love to run it on my Nexus 7.

64 points by mh_ 13y ago

This jibes with what I've seen. I didn't think phones could generate content, but it was just long text that they struggled with. I don't like typing on a tablet, but my laptop gets smaller and smaller. Good user experience people will find ways to get tools on these devices, with desktops relegated to very heavy lifting. (Anything requiring big screens)

diydsp 13y ago
On this note, I really enjoyed Jobs' comparison of development PCs to "trucks." I see myself as a "truck" driver in the future :) With lots of people driving sedans. It makes sense to me. I, too, see the computer hardware world as diverging into "developer" and "commuter/consumer" equipment. I'll spend a few weeks developing, then use the app on my consumer system, just like a trucker drives 40 hours a week for work, then takes car to visit family or a restaurant or amusement park, etc.

MatthewPhillips 13y ago

It's interesting that they seem to be suggesting they will build out an office suite imagined from the beginning for mobile. I had thought of Paper as being for artists but perhaps they aim to go more general purpose.

deepak-kumar 13y ago
You mean doodling like this? : https://bubbleideas.com/letters/demo-leave-application https://bubbleideas.com/letters/demo-leave-application

alexobenauer 13y ago

Title would probably be better if it were a bit more descriptive: "FiftyThree, creators of Paper app, raise $15M, plan mobile office suite"

jpdoctor 13y ago

> FiftyThree didn’t need to raise money People tend to believe actions more than words.

gavanwoolery 13y ago

I think the most important thing, if you want a tablet to be productive, is a keyboard that actually suits it. I'm not talking about what we have now, which is basically laptops with detachable keyboards. I envision something you could pick up and type with, like a split keyboard on each side of the tablet. The tricky part to this is creating something you can grip and type with at the same time, but I don't doubt a creative engineer could come up with something (there are one handed keyboards that you can grip and type with effectively, IIRC).

cpdean 13y ago

" Particularly relevant was a project they led at Microsoft called Courier that has been widely praised as a visionary take on tablet computing (unfortunately, Courier was never brought to market)" I thought the Courier was cool when it was presented, and still cool now. I would completely consider getting one if it were priced the same as one of the other tablets.

corresation 13y ago

Note that the Jobs quote is linked, the "skeptic" quote is not. Once against Steve Jobs proves prescient compared to imaginary foes. A tablet with a bluetooth keyboard is what traditionally would be called a laptop, and thanks to several iterations of hardware and software, a modern tablet holds its own. Is anyone seriously arguing that people dismissed the ideas of laptops being productive, or that they thought that the state of tablets wouldn't improve? Tangentially, Paper has got to be the most overhyped application in the history of applications. I mostly ignored it (after falling for the hype and grabbing it and all of the in-app purchases to actually have a marginally useful drawing program), but when they went on the road selling snake-oil about their trivial HSV "paint mixer" I really started to see the negativity in the hype.

monsterix 13y ago
> but when they went on the road selling snake-oil about their trivial HSV "paint mixer" I really started to see the negativity in the hype. Why blame the entrepreneur for media hyperbole? Tech media lately is full of hired journalists from traditional(sic) media. Many claim to be tech journos but only a handful understand technology. Guess it's a pattern similar to how mainstream reports on Snowden rather than real issues.
- corresation 13y ago
  Absolutely true, however they were complicit in the snake oil pitch, offering up quotes that were technically questionable, claiming some innovation that simply didn't exist. The alternate scenario is that some developers churned for a year and then led a manager on about how magical what they created was. http://goo.gl/jItcf http://goo.gl/jItcf
interpol_p 13y ago
On Paper being overhyped: I agree that their colour mixer is pretty mediocre, but they certainly nailed the right feeling with most of their drawing tools. It's still the app I go to most when I want to sketch a quick idea or thought process. It actually does what its name suggests and replaces a piece of paper for my use. There's a fluidity and aesthetic to it that no other iPad drawing app has matched yet. You mentioned you bought Paper and all of the in-app purchases — as far as I'm aware, Paper has always been free since launch (you can see this at its App Shopper link http://appshopper.com/productivity/paper-by-fiftythree http://appshopper.com/productivity/paper-by-fiftythree). I think the IAP is fairly priced considering how much use I've gotten out of the app.

danso 13y ago

Congrats to FiftyThree, however, I think that while new kinds of content-creation apps can be created on touch-devices, I don't (/hope) that they replace their precursors. obligatory link to Bret Victor's rant on the limitation of touch interfaces: http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/ http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi... To put it another way: for those of you who program/create via the command line and keyboard shortcuts, could you imagine a touch-setup that would give you more power than what you have with the keyboard? The mouse and GUI hasn't so far...they've added different ways to create content, but arguably these interfaces end up limiting the true power users.

leephillips 13y ago
"could you imagine a touch-setup that would give you more power than what you have with the keyboard?" The only way would be if you created a language of touch and gestures, where you could use syntax to build up complex instructions not predetermined by the App maker.
cpdean 13y ago
One of the main reasons I use vim daily is it's ability to let me manipulate text in segments of 'text objects'. Its something that lets me feel like I'm grabbing chunks of code and moving them around like contiguous lego-bricks of logic. I want there to be a way to do this with touch screens, but I haven't found it yet. When it happens, though, I may retire my beloved keyboard.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rsl7 13y ago

Good luck to them. In my view, Paper is more of a toy than a useful tool but it's not all their fault. Some will spin this more charitably with something along the lines of 'limitations foster creativity' or something like that. Attempting to really use Paper made me realize something that's been sort of but not really bothering me since the iPad was introduced, and that is I like the tools but the application as a whole sucks. It doesn't make sense to buy a some canvas or a drawing notebook at the art store but be limited to the tools that are bundled with it. That is crazy. Not just crazy but it makes zero sense. I can make a picture on a real piece of paper with literally anything that makes a mark, from coffee to dirt, blood, fruit, chemicals, bricks, burnt sticks (if I want to be classic), water... not to mention folding and crumpling. the digital tablet equivalent to this will require two things. 1. complete separation of the tools from the "paper". And I mean complete. BYOT. Whatever that means. 2. a connection between physical tools and software tools. I am TOTALLY FINE with having five different physical objects to draw on my virtual tablet if it means not having to mess around with someone's idea of a genius menu and tool selection system. Really. I would actually love this so much. Look at a real artists studio: they often look like explosions happened. nobody thinks that fewer tools is better. I can find a physical tool without looking or thinking about it or messing up my train of thought. Menus and gestures and commands and even alphabetization ffs, all that "left brain" stuff is a real drag. 3. stretch objective, not really critical today but maybe 20 years from now, I'd like to have full, realistic multitouch. The day I can, for instance, make a handprint on my virtual tablet is the first day it's going to be able to reproduce detailed human expression. I might be off base on this particular one but I want it. yeah, yeah yeah limitations and all that. digital stuff is totally different. whatever.

interpol_p 13y ago
> Paper is more of a toy than a useful tool but it's not all their fault. Some will spin this more charitably with something along the lines of 'limitations foster creativity' or something like that. I have a distinctly opposite experience to you regarding Paper. It was the first app that actually made me start picking up my iPad and using it to get my thoughts down. Part of it is the lack of tools and choices — it's not that they foster creativity, it's that they reduce friction. Paper ships with a few tools that feel very nice, and a few colours that are very well-chosen. Stuff looks great and you don't have to make many decisions, you just focus on getting the idea in your head on the screen with as few obstacles as possible. I believe that's the goal of the app and I think they achieved it. I have many pro drawing tools on the iPad (such as Procreate, which is awesome) but using these is as much an exercise in learning and configuring the tool as it is in generating the content. Sometimes this is useful — when you want to do a piece of final artwork that you have already designed. But Paper to me feels much more like your image of an artist's studio. A disorganised explosion of content where you don't care where it goes so long as it goes out of your head. You don't care about the tools because someone else has made all the right choices. You only care about getting the lines onto paper. I'd prefer it if Paper removed the organisational "sketch books" from the app and simply had it present me a blank piece of paper each time I opened the app. That's all I'm usually looking for when I go to the app. I don't even care if my work is saved because that's irrelevant to working through an idea. These aren't limitations, and I think it's wrong to see them as such.

jgalt212 13y ago

Tablets are for sheep. PCs/laptops are for herders.

ajmarsh 13y ago

Hopefully they will spend some of that money on hiring Android developers. Paper looks cool, love to run it on my Nexus 7.