4 ms·

Is there any good example of a modern country transitioning from a high-corruption country to a low-corruption country? Call me cynical, but I haven't seen a m

Is there any good example of a modern country transitioning from a high-corruption country to a low-corruption country? Call me cynical, but I haven't seen a mass protest movement do a whole lot of good lately. The arab spring seems to have provided an opening for a lot of radical Islamic movements and hasn't improved the quality of life for anybody. Egyptians are suffering economically. The Brave New Day never comes

rayiner 13y ago
That's the problem with revolutions. It was the young people that started it, but turns out what their parents wanted was even more Islam.
Fargren 13y ago
Arguably, the situation in Argentina improved a lot after a the 2001 protests. I'm not a great fan of teh current government, but I think they are adequate. And I don't think we've had an adequate government sin the 60s. If anything, it's nice to be able to say that when people protests nowadays is because they can't protect their savings as well as they used to, instead of protesting because they are in real risk of starving to death as they were a decade ago.
- GFischer 13y ago
  Just came back from Buenos Aires... while some things improved, they're NOT adequate. The desperate economic measures will end up cratering the country again (I mean, they already have, only the effects will be felt in a few months or years). Protect their savings? They can't even sell their property in a "hard" currency, and government is blatantly inflating away people's money. When the artificial dollar cracks, the facade will crumble and people WILL be hungry.
  - Fargren 13y ago
    What I see is things improving from the bottom up instead of from the top down, for the first time in a very long time. For people who are nearer to the top (and this includes a large sector of the middle classes that looks up to the top percenters), this looks like a step back, as they can't see the benefits of the things that are improving. But I really believe in the long run, this is the only plan that won't destroy the country. To me, things just seems better. I hope you are wrong.
    - GFischer 13y ago
      I hope I'm wrong too :P I live in Uruguay and we'll feel the backlash. I'm probably being too harsh on the government, they are doing redistributive policies - whether that's the best thing to do with the money I'm not sold, but at least they aren't stealing it all or handling all of it to contractors. However, while all this helps in the short run, on the outside it looks like it will destroy a lot of things in a not so distant future. Argentina will recover as usual, but the next few years look like a repeat of 2001.
arethuza 13y ago
"The Brave New Day never comes" Isn't that the "Iron law of oligarchy": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
barry-cotter 13y ago
Argentina before and after Pinochet. Compare the relative GDPs of Argentina and Chile, the coup was in 1973. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=gdp+per+person+argentina%2Fgdp+per+person+chile http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=gdp+per+person+argentin... Also, Hong Kong made a big change for the better after the foundation of the ICAC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_Corruption_(Hong_Kong) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_...

rayiner 13y ago

That's the problem with revolutions. It was the young people that started it, but turns out what their parents wanted was even more Islam.

Fargren 13y ago

Arguably, the situation in Argentina improved a lot after a the 2001 protests. I'm not a great fan of teh current government, but I think they are adequate. And I don't think we've had an adequate government sin the 60s. If anything, it's nice to be able to say that when people protests nowadays is because they can't protect their savings as well as they used to, instead of protesting because they are in real risk of starving to death as they were a decade ago.

GFischer 13y ago
Just came back from Buenos Aires... while some things improved, they're NOT adequate. The desperate economic measures will end up cratering the country again (I mean, they already have, only the effects will be felt in a few months or years). Protect their savings? They can't even sell their property in a "hard" currency, and government is blatantly inflating away people's money. When the artificial dollar cracks, the facade will crumble and people WILL be hungry.
- Fargren 13y ago
  What I see is things improving from the bottom up instead of from the top down, for the first time in a very long time. For people who are nearer to the top (and this includes a large sector of the middle classes that looks up to the top percenters), this looks like a step back, as they can't see the benefits of the things that are improving. But I really believe in the long run, this is the only plan that won't destroy the country. To me, things just seems better. I hope you are wrong.
  - GFischer 13y ago
    I hope I'm wrong too :P I live in Uruguay and we'll feel the backlash. I'm probably being too harsh on the government, they are doing redistributive policies - whether that's the best thing to do with the money I'm not sold, but at least they aren't stealing it all or handling all of it to contractors. However, while all this helps in the short run, on the outside it looks like it will destroy a lot of things in a not so distant future. Argentina will recover as usual, but the next few years look like a repeat of 2001.

arethuza 13y ago

"The Brave New Day never comes" Isn't that the "Iron law of oligarchy": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

barry-cotter 13y ago

Argentina before and after Pinochet. Compare the relative GDPs of Argentina and Chile, the coup was in 1973. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=gdp+per+person+argentina%2Fgdp+per+person+chile http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=gdp+per+person+argentin... Also, Hong Kong made a big change for the better after the foundation of the ICAC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_Corruption_(Hong_Kong) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_...