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Hello, OP and guy who is tracking down the FISA court for you. Happy to answer any questions!

pluies 13y ago
My first reaction upon seeing your username and remembering previous HN discussions related to your actions was "oh, it's you!". Keep up the good work. :)
- tsaoutourpants 13y ago
  Thank you! I have trouble resisting doing more work when the government keeps making my previous causes look like minor constitutional transgressions in comparison. ;)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
will_brown 13y ago
1. Can you release a sample of your Motion to Quash, sans personally identifying information, or maybe the Motion on your own behalf? 2. Will you consider filing a Motion to the Court mandating the Court acceptance electronic filings (CM/ECF), since 1. presumably all Americans have standing; 2. your experience alone should be prima facie evidence that the Court is purposely limiting access to the Court itself; 3. it is an exception that a Federal Court does not permit CM/ECF (see: http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/CMECF/Courts.aspx http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/CMECF/Courts.aspx) - I am of the opinion that #2 will cause the most damage because it will open the floodgates and overwhelm the Court. Give em hell.
- tsaoutourpants 13y ago
  1. The form is basically on the Web site. If you copy and paste it into Word, you're all set. 2. There's nothing I'm aware of to force a court to accept electronic filings. But they really should accept paper filings directly.
  - will_brown 13y ago
    In case it has not been posted in the thread, here is a link to the Rules of the FISA Court: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/rules/FISC2010.pdf http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/rules/FISC2010.pdf As to #2, as far as I am aware, there is nothing to "force a court to accept electronic records"; however, this would be in the inherent discretion of the Court. Especially persuasive is the argument that in the Court Rules themselves, under the Filing provision, there is no filing rule just a request to call the clerk, which on its face appears to be a deliberate attempt to limit access to the Court - again this is just a Motion, it may be denied, like the Motions to Quash may be denied, but I imagine a Judge would have a hard time justifying the denial a Motion to permit electronic filing as such a limited issue certainly does not jeopardize national security in any sense, unless they consider citizens exercising their rights a threat to national security (not that US citizens have a right to e-file, but they have a right to petition the court, and the argument is that said right is being denied through the existing Court Rules). Notwithstanding, the Motions to Quash will likely put great weight on the judicial economy, and I am sure it is all fun and games in the FISA Court until the Judges have to cancel their golf games to do real work. It always makes me smile thinking of the government employees who without any thought take a personal interest in the subversion of the rights of citizens, and the crushing weight of the citizens who will fight for their rights/liberties.
    - tsaoutourpants 13y ago
      I agree that they're limiting access ad that I could probably ask for some public method of filing, whether it be paper or electronic. Note that I've filed so far about 6 motions for file electronically in U.S. District Courts and Courts of Appeals. Four of them have been granted, 1 rejected because the judge mistakenly thought the court didn't have the technical ability to do it for pro se litigants, and one rejected without reason, the latter being by a Court of Appeals. It's surprising but the courts are not firmly on-board with the e-filing -- unless, of course, they think it wil make things easier for them.
      - will_brown 13y ago

My first reaction upon seeing your username and remembering previous HN discussions related to your actions was "oh, it's you!". Keep up the good work. :)

tsaoutourpants 13y ago
Thank you! I have trouble resisting doing more work when the government keeps making my previous causes look like minor constitutional transgressions in comparison. ;)

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

will_brown 13y ago

1. Can you release a sample of your Motion to Quash, sans personally identifying information, or maybe the Motion on your own behalf? 2. Will you consider filing a Motion to the Court mandating the Court acceptance electronic filings (CM/ECF), since 1. presumably all Americans have standing; 2. your experience alone should be prima facie evidence that the Court is purposely limiting access to the Court itself; 3. it is an exception that a Federal Court does not permit CM/ECF (see: http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/CMECF/Courts.aspx http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/CMECF/Courts.aspx) - I am of the opinion that #2 will cause the most damage because it will open the floodgates and overwhelm the Court. Give em hell.

tsaoutourpants 13y ago
1. The form is basically on the Web site. If you copy and paste it into Word, you're all set. 2. There's nothing I'm aware of to force a court to accept electronic filings. But they really should accept paper filings directly.
- will_brown 13y ago
  In case it has not been posted in the thread, here is a link to the Rules of the FISA Court: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/rules/FISC2010.pdf http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/rules/FISC2010.pdf As to #2, as far as I am aware, there is nothing to "force a court to accept electronic records"; however, this would be in the inherent discretion of the Court. Especially persuasive is the argument that in the Court Rules themselves, under the Filing provision, there is no filing rule just a request to call the clerk, which on its face appears to be a deliberate attempt to limit access to the Court - again this is just a Motion, it may be denied, like the Motions to Quash may be denied, but I imagine a Judge would have a hard time justifying the denial a Motion to permit electronic filing as such a limited issue certainly does not jeopardize national security in any sense, unless they consider citizens exercising their rights a threat to national security (not that US citizens have a right to e-file, but they have a right to petition the court, and the argument is that said right is being denied through the existing Court Rules). Notwithstanding, the Motions to Quash will likely put great weight on the judicial economy, and I am sure it is all fun and games in the FISA Court until the Judges have to cancel their golf games to do real work. It always makes me smile thinking of the government employees who without any thought take a personal interest in the subversion of the rights of citizens, and the crushing weight of the citizens who will fight for their rights/liberties.
  - tsaoutourpants 13y ago
    I agree that they're limiting access ad that I could probably ask for some public method of filing, whether it be paper or electronic. Note that I've filed so far about 6 motions for file electronically in U.S. District Courts and Courts of Appeals. Four of them have been granted, 1 rejected because the judge mistakenly thought the court didn't have the technical ability to do it for pro se litigants, and one rejected without reason, the latter being by a Court of Appeals. It's surprising but the courts are not firmly on-board with the e-filing -- unless, of course, they think it wil make things easier for them.
    - will_brown 13y ago