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the opt-in could be more transparent. I just installed Ghostery and the option says[1]: > Help Support Ghostery by sending anonymous statistical data back to G

by nikcub 13y ago

the opt-in could be more transparent. I just installed Ghostery and the option says[1]: > Help Support Ghostery by sending anonymous statistical data back to Ghostery HQ. It is only when you click more information that you find out this information can be sent to other companies "Ghostery community..", and then only when you click on the FAQ and read the section about Ghostrank is it clearer how this information is being shared [2] and with whom. No mention of ad networks as clients. No mention of helping ad networks better target ads, infact their FAQ explicitly states: > Evidon doesn’t work to allow advertisers to be more invasive. Ghostery market to the privacy community. Their Twitter account[3] has been on top of the recent NSA story and other privacy stories and they promote their product as a solution for the privacy conscious. The way they have co-opted the community, funneling new users into their product via user ad tracking fears, while at the same time selling the data via a vague opt-in feels disingenuous to me. I think the 'fix' here could be as simple as acknowledging third-party sharing in that initial opt-in screen, and then updating the language in the FAQ to include clarification on how it is shared. [1] screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/xuRdj http://imgur.com/a/xuRdj [2] FAQ: http://www.ghostery.com/faq#q14 http://www.ghostery.com/faq#q14 [3] https://twitter.com/ghostery https://twitter.com/ghostery

sliverstorm 13y ago
I don't remember where I read about it, but I've known about it for a while. I was never particularly upset- I understood it to be aiding ad networks in targeting, which I think is a good thing. You seem to think this line implies they are not improving targeting: > Evidon doesn’t work to allow advertisers to be more invasive. But this says to me they don't help advertisers shoehorn ads in more places, not anything about targeting.
- nikcub 13y ago
  I'm indifferent to it, I knew they were collecting data, I didn't know where it was going from there. I have never used or recommended Ghostery because I don't believe blacklisting tracking targets is the solution. The 'more invasive' line isn't clear - it isn't a term that you find in other privacy policies. It would be difficult to be 'more invasive' than tracking with third-parties on the web the way it is today. I think they may be forced into expanding and clarifying that line and parts of the FAQ is this becomes a popular issue. I read that entire section and can't figure out what they do or don't do ..
  - byoogle 13y ago
    Ghostery claims 8 million users are opted in to "share" their data. From the informal polling I've done of Ghostery users (I work on an anti-tracking alternative called Disconnect), I believe less than 1 in 10 of those users know Ghostery is selling their browsing data to advertisers. If Ghostery cared about being more transparent than the ad industry, they'd have to do a lot more than fix their FAQs. They should opt out all of the 8 million users who opted in without being told their data would be sold. Then Ghostery should re-onboard these users with accurate messaging. Quite frankly, Ghostery should also send checks to the 8 million users for all the money Ghostery made off their data.
    - mynewwork 13y ago
      Unless I am mistaken, saying that "Ghostery is selling their browsing data to advertisers" is wrong, at least to common understanding of those terms. I have ghostery installed and I do knowingly opt in to the anonymous data sharing. From their FAQ (http://www.ghostery.com/faq#q16 http://www.ghostery.com/faq#q16) my understanding is that there is nothing personally identifiable about this data, they are just using my interaction with the web to say "Tracker X appeared on website Y". I see nothing wrong with this. I'm happy to let them gather this information and profit from it - they are providing me with a useful service and selling that aggregate, anonymous data lets them stay in business and continue to provide me with their service. If I am misunderstanding something, and this data can be used to identify me as an individual, I would welcome an explanation.
MisterWebz 13y ago
Ghostery does other shady stuff. I have to frequently go to my settings page to disable tracking of all trackers because every time it updates its list, it won't automatically block the new trackers. As far as I know, it doesn't have an option to enable this, nor does it notify me that the list has been updated and several trackers are still unblocked.
- pedrocr 13y ago
  Had the same experience and so dug into the preferences. There seems to be an option to fix this in: Advanced->Auto Update->Block new elements by default
  - MisterWebz 13y ago
    Ah yes, thank you.
fixanoid 13y ago
Nick, this isn't something new that Ghostery started doing this has been in the addon since day 1, even before Evidon purchased Ghostery. There are multiple articles "exposing" this find, and its not something we've been hiding. The feature is opt in As far as the use of data, some of the products Evidon is now making are so new that the GhostRank information panel has not needed an update. We'll be modifying the wording to be clearer, but just to make sure, we never collect or use PII info, just the trackers information to use in products such as this: http://www.evidon.com/trackermap http://www.evidon.com/trackermap In any case, here is a good post we've just put up on our blog that answers these concerns: http://purplebox.ghostery.com/?p=1016023438 http://purplebox.ghostery.com/?p=1016023438

by nikcub 13y ago

sliverstorm 13y ago

I don't remember where I read about it, but I've known about it for a while. I was never particularly upset- I understood it to be aiding ad networks in targeting, which I think is a good thing. You seem to think this line implies they are not improving targeting: > Evidon doesn’t work to allow advertisers to be more invasive. But this says to me they don't help advertisers shoehorn ads in more places, not anything about targeting.

nikcub 13y ago
I'm indifferent to it, I knew they were collecting data, I didn't know where it was going from there. I have never used or recommended Ghostery because I don't believe blacklisting tracking targets is the solution. The 'more invasive' line isn't clear - it isn't a term that you find in other privacy policies. It would be difficult to be 'more invasive' than tracking with third-parties on the web the way it is today. I think they may be forced into expanding and clarifying that line and parts of the FAQ is this becomes a popular issue. I read that entire section and can't figure out what they do or don't do ..
- byoogle 13y ago
  Ghostery claims 8 million users are opted in to "share" their data. From the informal polling I've done of Ghostery users (I work on an anti-tracking alternative called Disconnect), I believe less than 1 in 10 of those users know Ghostery is selling their browsing data to advertisers. If Ghostery cared about being more transparent than the ad industry, they'd have to do a lot more than fix their FAQs. They should opt out all of the 8 million users who opted in without being told their data would be sold. Then Ghostery should re-onboard these users with accurate messaging. Quite frankly, Ghostery should also send checks to the 8 million users for all the money Ghostery made off their data.
  - mynewwork 13y ago
    Unless I am mistaken, saying that "Ghostery is selling their browsing data to advertisers" is wrong, at least to common understanding of those terms. I have ghostery installed and I do knowingly opt in to the anonymous data sharing. From their FAQ (http://www.ghostery.com/faq#q16 http://www.ghostery.com/faq#q16) my understanding is that there is nothing personally identifiable about this data, they are just using my interaction with the web to say "Tracker X appeared on website Y". I see nothing wrong with this. I'm happy to let them gather this information and profit from it - they are providing me with a useful service and selling that aggregate, anonymous data lets them stay in business and continue to provide me with their service. If I am misunderstanding something, and this data can be used to identify me as an individual, I would welcome an explanation.

MisterWebz 13y ago

Ghostery does other shady stuff. I have to frequently go to my settings page to disable tracking of all trackers because every time it updates its list, it won't automatically block the new trackers. As far as I know, it doesn't have an option to enable this, nor does it notify me that the list has been updated and several trackers are still unblocked.

pedrocr 13y ago
Had the same experience and so dug into the preferences. There seems to be an option to fix this in: Advanced->Auto Update->Block new elements by default
- MisterWebz 13y ago
  Ah yes, thank you.

fixanoid 13y ago

Nick, this isn't something new that Ghostery started doing this has been in the addon since day 1, even before Evidon purchased Ghostery. There are multiple articles "exposing" this find, and its not something we've been hiding. The feature is opt in As far as the use of data, some of the products Evidon is now making are so new that the GhostRank information panel has not needed an update. We'll be modifying the wording to be clearer, but just to make sure, we never collect or use PII info, just the trackers information to use in products such as this: http://www.evidon.com/trackermap http://www.evidon.com/trackermap In any case, here is a good post we've just put up on our blog that answers these concerns: http://purplebox.ghostery.com/?p=1016023438 http://purplebox.ghostery.com/?p=1016023438