18 ms·

Brazil protests spread in Sao Paulo, Brasilia and Rio

145 points by flaviojuvenal 13y ago

Iuz 13y ago
it had to start somewhere it had to start sometime
- invisiblefunnel 13y ago
  what better place than here what better time than now
  - gverri 13y ago
    It would be a lot better if it happened before Brazil decision to host the world cup and olympics. Theres nothing much that can be done now.
    - Iuz 13y ago
      that was not decided by the people...
    - hudell 13y ago
      It took me two year to know we would be hosting the world cup
cesarbs 13y ago
Brazilian citizen here, but living in the US. I never thought I'd say this, but I really wish I was back there to take part in the protests. Brazil finally has a chance to change for the better. For those of you who don't know what's going on, or who are being fed incorrect information by the media: protests started because of a small increase in bus fares, but that was just the trigger to the whole thing. Brazilians are fed up with all the crap the government has been doing for decades, unscrupulously stealing tax payers' money for their own benefit. Many will say this happens everywhere, even in the most developed countries, but people from developed countries usually have no idea and can barely picture how rampant corruption is in Brazil. Brazil is not a poor country. It's one of the biggest economies in the world. But if you go down there, it will pretty much look like a poor country. Despite the strong economy and the ridiculously high taxes, there is very little income redistribution. Besides the income inequality, another thing that piss Brazilians off is the fact that everything has to be paid in double: you pay taxes for public education (even the university is free), but it's so shitty you have to pay for a private school for your kids; you pay taxes for the universal health care system, but it's so shitty (dozens of people die on the line for life-critical procedures) you have to pay for private health care (which is usually shitty too, but not nearly as shitty as the public one); you supposedly pay taxes for public safety, but it's nonexistent to a point people have to leave behind gates (I had to go through 2 gates and 2 doors, with 5 keys in total, to enter my aparment there) and bared windows and pay for private security companies to secure their homes. Brazilians have had enough. The current generation of youths is much more connected and aware of the country's problems, and usually have a much better idea that the situation outside (read US, Canada, Europe and Australia, popular destinations for studying or working abroad) is better and that a better life is possible, and it won't take it anymore. It's finally time for a change.
- robryan 13y ago
  This extends to imports as well, often the duties run up around 100% of the item price. Not only that but items get stuck in customs for weeks as I assume they go through everything to level these duties. From the outside selling things into Brazil it seems like a pretty bad situation. People seem to be used to it there though and just expect the import process to be painful.
  - cesarbs 13y ago
    I forgot to mention that one, thanks for the note. And that is done in the name of protecting the local market, which is nonexistent for most things we want to import.
    - molmalo 13y ago
      Replace Brazil with Argentina, and everything you two have said would still be correct. As a country, we are much more alike than we like to acknowledge.
- leoalves 13y ago
  There are a few videos on youtube explaining it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AIBYEXLGdSg http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AIBYE... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApBgNQgKPU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApBgNQgKPU
- hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
  The so called leaders of the original movement (against the raise in the bus fares) were on an interview today and negated that the protests are because "Brazilians had enough" though. [1] They said that even though all the people are commenting on their Facebook profile for days that it's not about the bus fares anymore. The people on the protests are already being manipulated by the original movement, by left wing and right wing. Even the mass media and Internet celebrities are capitalizing on it, each claiming the protests to be whatever they feel like. The swing on the public opinion between last monday and today is so severe that it is scary, a clear study in group dynamics. Without an objective, this is more like a massive flashmob than a real movement. It's also a catastrophe waiting to occur, all it takes is one radical leadership to pop up. I hope the people get more critic or this won't achieve anything meaningful, will just fulfill the ego of the people who went to the protests to have an Instagram pic of it on their profile. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXxQ6ntyM-U&feature=c4-overview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXxQ6ntyM-U&feature=c4-overvi...
kinow 13y ago
The protesters passed by my street on the way to Paulista Avenue, and I have to admit that seeing all those people walking singing the national anthem was simply amazing. Something to tell my grandsons :) Last number I heard on the TV reported 75K people in Sao Paulo, though the authorities told the media that would announce the updated numbers only after the protests. The movement leaders have already created a new event on FaceBook, calling all protesters to gather together again tomorrow, at 5PM on Se Square.
joaomsa 13y ago
The police aggression is getting ridiculous. My university is right next to a soccer stadium holding a Confederation's Cup game. Since the effect of these and other upcoming sporting events on public works is a major cause of vindication, a large group of protesters tried to move near the stadium and ended up clashing with riot troops. I was at one of entrances into campus, when police started throwing tear gas and shooting rubber bullets almost indiscriminately while yelling that anybody who stayed was going to get beaten.
foobarbazqux 13y ago
What does this have to do with Hacker News? From the guidelines: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- quantumpotato_ 13y ago
  News that hackers might be interested in. Considering its page-rank, I'd say the OP succeeded.
- danilocampos 13y ago
  Keep. Reading. > Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    What are the disadvantages to complaining in the actual thread? I understand about making new submissions for the sake of complaining.
    - vacri 13y ago
      Because it always results in the same exchange of dialogue. If you don't think a post is appropriate, flag it. That does something that might result in action. All commenting does is consume space for nowt.
      - davidw 13y ago
        Commenting also lets people know that a post - like this one - is inappropriate for the site.
rcruzeiro 13y ago
I am really proud to see this here. I was there and I can say that it was the largest demonstration since the military dictatorship era more than 20 year ago.
- cfontes 13y ago
  What about Color impeachement ? I think that one was bigger...
  - oscargrouch 13y ago
    Yeah, but in that time(90's) it was manipulated by the mass media.. now its a real democratic movement from the people.. And now with the media astonished because they cant control anybody anymore
hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
I just hope the mass doesn't get manipulated into doing anything stupid, because the attempts already started. Left-wing sympathizers (including the original movement) are already manipulating the protests. A portion of the people in the protests diverged and tried to break into the state hall (where the governor sleeps). Why, if the bus fares are controlled by the city mayor? They should be protesting on the city hall, but they won't, for obvious political implications since the mayor is left-wing. Right-wing are also joining the protests now in an attempt to overthrow. The anti-corruption sentiment of the general population can be fuel to an impeachment of left-wings in power in the following days. The media at large is also reporting the happenings in a positive light only. We all know this can't be good, a functional media is one that shows two sides of the story, but it seems most media outlets are too scared to disagree. Finally, the moral judgment already started on the social networks. Anyone who doesn't join the protests gets alienated. Since social networks amplify positive feedback only, things are turning into an echo chamber. Different than other brazilians, I'm not 100% happy the "people are waking up", I'm actually scared because it's just a bunch of fed up people hitting the streets without a clear objective. This has the potential to be really good if the people put political parties aside and keep putting pressure on important matters in the following days; but can also be catastrophically bad if radical leaderships pop up from this.
- gverri 13y ago
  Haddad is not left-wing. PT is not left-wing. They marched to the state hall because Alckimin (São Paulo governor) has the control over the military police (yes, our everyday police is military), and after the brutality of 06/13 it seemed only logical.
  - andlima 13y ago
    Care to explain why you don't consider Haddad and PT (the Workers Party) leftists? I totally disagree.
    - oscargrouch 13y ago
      they WERE left before PT and Lula get into power.. after that PT and Lula is much more like center.. not quite left, not quite right.. For America and UK they may look left, but thats because they just have rightists.. and maintain the other moviments choked and without any voice..
LatvjuAvs 13y ago
Oh, must burn my neighbors car to prove a point.
elleferrer 13y ago
This is an excellent brief overview of the problems in Brazil: - No, I'm not going to the World Cup by @CarlaDauden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApBgNQgKPU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApBgNQgKPU
InclinedPlane 13y ago
In Brazil especially it's far more important for these protests to materialize into organized political action and public debates. Overthrowing the government of Brazil would be unhelpful, Brazil has something approaching a functional democracy (certainly comparable to democracy in America during many parts of its history). That should not be thrown away. And with concerted political action it can be strengthened rather than weakened, as can liberty. I fear the temptation of the powerless to exercise power, even in the form of a violent mob, could outweigh the desire to fight for the deep, long-term changes that will actually see the country improve.
- oscargrouch 13y ago
  I dont think "America" is a good example of democracy.. Brazil is very sofisticated in terms of democracy than US is in many levels.. US economical development was in part because the industrial lords could do whatever they want without many concerns.. here we got more discussions about social aspects, and more people from diferent ways of views.. You see moviments like ocuppy were really choked by the mass media and the politics in the very beginning.. People who dares to face against the status quo get convicted as traitors, get killed or are invited to leave the country (Chaplin)
tellarin 13y ago
Another point of view on the protests: http://abrazilianoperatinginthisarea.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/brazilian-protests-explained-its-not-the-economy-stupid/ http://abrazilianoperatinginthisarea.wordpress.com/2013/06/1... This started because of a raise in bus fares, but the fact that more and more people are protesting has a lot to do with police brutality in repressing the first protests. Most people in Brazil don't usually protest (nor actually fill complains when wronged), due to a variety of reasons. But whenever there is a protest it is quickly classified into either: a) "just vandalism", or b) "peaceful protests". For what the media/elite calls as 'a)', the typical Brazilian attitude is quite weird. Most people in Brazil have this very fascist view that police should be brutal with "criminals". Whoever they might be. As long as not themselves. However, for the rarer cases where 'b)' happens (and is viewed as such by most people), which was the case here, it might be different. In the current case, police brutality backfired and became one of the main reasons for the escalation of protests and its spread to other cities. PS: I'm a Brazilian citizen.
dasil003 13y ago
One funny detail about the article I couldn't help noticing: the article talks about "scaling the roof" of the National Congress building conjuring up an image of the people swarming over and laying siege to some kind of national fortress. But of course the National Congress rooftop[1] is one of the most accessible rooftops in the world being at road-level and visited by thousands of tourists on a regular basis. 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Brasilia_National_Congress.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Brasilia_National_Co...
daniloassis 13y ago
I'm Brazilian and Carioca... I was at Rio's protest yesterday and it was BEAUTIFUL. I'm against all kind of violence and vandalism, unfortunatelly we had a few people that caused a LOT of damage to the city in the very end, but almost every story you hear about manifestations and protests ends the same way everywhere in the world... so I leave for each one what you feel about this. We are just sick of swallowing all the sh*t and public abuses that Government throw at us and we just complain in silence, this time people went to the streets and showed that if we manage to organize ourselves and keep pushing (peacefully, of course), we might achieve something meaningful... like, for instance, RESPECT. Send love and support to us, we are needing. :)

145 points by flaviojuvenal 13y ago

Iuz 13y ago

it had to start somewhere it had to start sometime

invisiblefunnel 13y ago
what better place than here what better time than now
- gverri 13y ago
  It would be a lot better if it happened before Brazil decision to host the world cup and olympics. Theres nothing much that can be done now.
  - Iuz 13y ago
    that was not decided by the people...
  - hudell 13y ago
    It took me two year to know we would be hosting the world cup

cesarbs 13y ago

Brazilian citizen here, but living in the US. I never thought I'd say this, but I really wish I was back there to take part in the protests. Brazil finally has a chance to change for the better. For those of you who don't know what's going on, or who are being fed incorrect information by the media: protests started because of a small increase in bus fares, but that was just the trigger to the whole thing. Brazilians are fed up with all the crap the government has been doing for decades, unscrupulously stealing tax payers' money for their own benefit. Many will say this happens everywhere, even in the most developed countries, but people from developed countries usually have no idea and can barely picture how rampant corruption is in Brazil. Brazil is not a poor country. It's one of the biggest economies in the world. But if you go down there, it will pretty much look like a poor country. Despite the strong economy and the ridiculously high taxes, there is very little income redistribution. Besides the income inequality, another thing that piss Brazilians off is the fact that everything has to be paid in double: you pay taxes for public education (even the university is free), but it's so shitty you have to pay for a private school for your kids; you pay taxes for the universal health care system, but it's so shitty (dozens of people die on the line for life-critical procedures) you have to pay for private health care (which is usually shitty too, but not nearly as shitty as the public one); you supposedly pay taxes for public safety, but it's nonexistent to a point people have to leave behind gates (I had to go through 2 gates and 2 doors, with 5 keys in total, to enter my aparment there) and bared windows and pay for private security companies to secure their homes. Brazilians have had enough. The current generation of youths is much more connected and aware of the country's problems, and usually have a much better idea that the situation outside (read US, Canada, Europe and Australia, popular destinations for studying or working abroad) is better and that a better life is possible, and it won't take it anymore. It's finally time for a change.

robryan 13y ago
This extends to imports as well, often the duties run up around 100% of the item price. Not only that but items get stuck in customs for weeks as I assume they go through everything to level these duties. From the outside selling things into Brazil it seems like a pretty bad situation. People seem to be used to it there though and just expect the import process to be painful.
- cesarbs 13y ago
  I forgot to mention that one, thanks for the note. And that is done in the name of protecting the local market, which is nonexistent for most things we want to import.
  - molmalo 13y ago
    Replace Brazil with Argentina, and everything you two have said would still be correct. As a country, we are much more alike than we like to acknowledge.
leoalves 13y ago
There are a few videos on youtube explaining it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AIBYEXLGdSg http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AIBYE... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApBgNQgKPU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApBgNQgKPU
hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
The so called leaders of the original movement (against the raise in the bus fares) were on an interview today and negated that the protests are because "Brazilians had enough" though. [1] They said that even though all the people are commenting on their Facebook profile for days that it's not about the bus fares anymore. The people on the protests are already being manipulated by the original movement, by left wing and right wing. Even the mass media and Internet celebrities are capitalizing on it, each claiming the protests to be whatever they feel like. The swing on the public opinion between last monday and today is so severe that it is scary, a clear study in group dynamics. Without an objective, this is more like a massive flashmob than a real movement. It's also a catastrophe waiting to occur, all it takes is one radical leadership to pop up. I hope the people get more critic or this won't achieve anything meaningful, will just fulfill the ego of the people who went to the protests to have an Instagram pic of it on their profile. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXxQ6ntyM-U&feature=c4-overview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXxQ6ntyM-U&feature=c4-overvi...

kinow 13y ago

The protesters passed by my street on the way to Paulista Avenue, and I have to admit that seeing all those people walking singing the national anthem was simply amazing. Something to tell my grandsons :) Last number I heard on the TV reported 75K people in Sao Paulo, though the authorities told the media that would announce the updated numbers only after the protests. The movement leaders have already created a new event on FaceBook, calling all protesters to gather together again tomorrow, at 5PM on Se Square.

joaomsa 13y ago

The police aggression is getting ridiculous. My university is right next to a soccer stadium holding a Confederation's Cup game. Since the effect of these and other upcoming sporting events on public works is a major cause of vindication, a large group of protesters tried to move near the stadium and ended up clashing with riot troops. I was at one of entrances into campus, when police started throwing tear gas and shooting rubber bullets almost indiscriminately while yelling that anybody who stayed was going to get beaten.

foobarbazqux 13y ago

What does this have to do with Hacker News? From the guidelines: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
quantumpotato_ 13y ago
News that hackers might be interested in. Considering its page-rank, I'd say the OP succeeded.
danilocampos 13y ago
Keep. Reading. > Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  What are the disadvantages to complaining in the actual thread? I understand about making new submissions for the sake of complaining.
  - vacri 13y ago
    Because it always results in the same exchange of dialogue. If you don't think a post is appropriate, flag it. That does something that might result in action. All commenting does is consume space for nowt.
    - davidw 13y ago
      Commenting also lets people know that a post - like this one - is inappropriate for the site.

rcruzeiro 13y ago

I am really proud to see this here. I was there and I can say that it was the largest demonstration since the military dictatorship era more than 20 year ago.

cfontes 13y ago
What about Color impeachement ? I think that one was bigger...
- oscargrouch 13y ago
  Yeah, but in that time(90's) it was manipulated by the mass media.. now its a real democratic movement from the people.. And now with the media astonished because they cant control anybody anymore

hcarvalhoalves 13y ago

I just hope the mass doesn't get manipulated into doing anything stupid, because the attempts already started. Left-wing sympathizers (including the original movement) are already manipulating the protests. A portion of the people in the protests diverged and tried to break into the state hall (where the governor sleeps). Why, if the bus fares are controlled by the city mayor? They should be protesting on the city hall, but they won't, for obvious political implications since the mayor is left-wing. Right-wing are also joining the protests now in an attempt to overthrow. The anti-corruption sentiment of the general population can be fuel to an impeachment of left-wings in power in the following days. The media at large is also reporting the happenings in a positive light only. We all know this can't be good, a functional media is one that shows two sides of the story, but it seems most media outlets are too scared to disagree. Finally, the moral judgment already started on the social networks. Anyone who doesn't join the protests gets alienated. Since social networks amplify positive feedback only, things are turning into an echo chamber. Different than other brazilians, I'm not 100% happy the "people are waking up", I'm actually scared because it's just a bunch of fed up people hitting the streets without a clear objective. This has the potential to be really good if the people put political parties aside and keep putting pressure on important matters in the following days; but can also be catastrophically bad if radical leaderships pop up from this.

gverri 13y ago
Haddad is not left-wing. PT is not left-wing. They marched to the state hall because Alckimin (São Paulo governor) has the control over the military police (yes, our everyday police is military), and after the brutality of 06/13 it seemed only logical.
- andlima 13y ago
  Care to explain why you don't consider Haddad and PT (the Workers Party) leftists? I totally disagree.
  - oscargrouch 13y ago
    they WERE left before PT and Lula get into power.. after that PT and Lula is much more like center.. not quite left, not quite right.. For America and UK they may look left, but thats because they just have rightists.. and maintain the other moviments choked and without any voice..

LatvjuAvs 13y ago

Oh, must burn my neighbors car to prove a point.

elleferrer 13y ago

This is an excellent brief overview of the problems in Brazil: - No, I'm not going to the World Cup by @CarlaDauden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApBgNQgKPU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApBgNQgKPU

InclinedPlane 13y ago

In Brazil especially it's far more important for these protests to materialize into organized political action and public debates. Overthrowing the government of Brazil would be unhelpful, Brazil has something approaching a functional democracy (certainly comparable to democracy in America during many parts of its history). That should not be thrown away. And with concerted political action it can be strengthened rather than weakened, as can liberty. I fear the temptation of the powerless to exercise power, even in the form of a violent mob, could outweigh the desire to fight for the deep, long-term changes that will actually see the country improve.

oscargrouch 13y ago
I dont think "America" is a good example of democracy.. Brazil is very sofisticated in terms of democracy than US is in many levels.. US economical development was in part because the industrial lords could do whatever they want without many concerns.. here we got more discussions about social aspects, and more people from diferent ways of views.. You see moviments like ocuppy were really choked by the mass media and the politics in the very beginning.. People who dares to face against the status quo get convicted as traitors, get killed or are invited to leave the country (Chaplin)

tellarin 13y ago

Another point of view on the protests: http://abrazilianoperatinginthisarea.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/brazilian-protests-explained-its-not-the-economy-stupid/ http://abrazilianoperatinginthisarea.wordpress.com/2013/06/1... This started because of a raise in bus fares, but the fact that more and more people are protesting has a lot to do with police brutality in repressing the first protests. Most people in Brazil don't usually protest (nor actually fill complains when wronged), due to a variety of reasons. But whenever there is a protest it is quickly classified into either: a) "just vandalism", or b) "peaceful protests". For what the media/elite calls as 'a)', the typical Brazilian attitude is quite weird. Most people in Brazil have this very fascist view that police should be brutal with "criminals". Whoever they might be. As long as not themselves. However, for the rarer cases where 'b)' happens (and is viewed as such by most people), which was the case here, it might be different. In the current case, police brutality backfired and became one of the main reasons for the escalation of protests and its spread to other cities. PS: I'm a Brazilian citizen.

dasil003 13y ago

One funny detail about the article I couldn't help noticing: the article talks about "scaling the roof" of the National Congress building conjuring up an image of the people swarming over and laying siege to some kind of national fortress. But of course the National Congress rooftop[1] is one of the most accessible rooftops in the world being at road-level and visited by thousands of tourists on a regular basis. 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Brasilia_National_Congress.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Brasilia_National_Co...

daniloassis 13y ago

I'm Brazilian and Carioca... I was at Rio's protest yesterday and it was BEAUTIFUL. I'm against all kind of violence and vandalism, unfortunatelly we had a few people that caused a LOT of damage to the city in the very end, but almost every story you hear about manifestations and protests ends the same way everywhere in the world... so I leave for each one what you feel about this. We are just sick of swallowing all the sh*t and public abuses that Government throw at us and we just complain in silence, this time people went to the streets and showed that if we manage to organize ourselves and keep pushing (peacefully, of course), we might achieve something meaningful... like, for instance, RESPECT. Send love and support to us, we are needing. :)