6 ms·

I'd argue that the biggest issue is simply that the App Store interface is terrible, and that results load far too slowly. The prominence of the Top List is onl

by pflats 13y ago

I'd argue that the biggest issue is simply that the App Store interface is terrible, and that results load far too slowly. The prominence of the Top List is only a symptom of that. Suppose you were at at a new bookstore, and each table of books was in its own little room, each isolated from the next. Once you think you want something, you have to unlock the book's acrylic case to take it out and read the dust jacket. You wouldn't go browsing in that store the way you would at a Barnes and Noble. If the deals were good enough, you might check out the Bestsellers Room and the "Recommended By Our Staff" Room. You might even stop by the "10 Bestselling Books About Home Improvement" Room, if that's what you're looking for. But there's no way you're going room to room to room to room to room in hopes finding something else. That's the App Store we have.

gfodor 13y ago
It's stunning to me how the App Store has so many downloads and so much revenue and yet still is such a huge piece of trash. It needs to be much faster. It needs to be more engaging. The search needs to be improved. The taxonomy needs a massive overhaul. Users need to be more encouraged to review apps and the review process itself needs to be overhauled. App sellers need to be able to perform legit SEO on their keywords and get insights into where their downloads are coming from. Even buying an app feels sluggish and unresponsive. The recommendation system is crap because they recommend similar apps not complementary apps. The whole thing is just begging to be rebuilt, it's basically the same as when it first launched. It's a huge optimization problem and it's absolutely embarrassing they are not constantly A/B testing, iterating, and improving the experience. It feels like they have no data science team at all working on this product. The fact that the App Store only changes with iOS updates shows they are approaching this product incorrectly. They should have dozens of experiments running all the time trying to drive up install rates. It's probably the biggest example I can think of where Apple really shows that they are unquestionably not Google. It's hard to underestimate just how much of a boost Apple will see if they actually build a real, first-class, fast shopping experience into the App Store.
- PiersonBro 13y ago
  I agree with your sentiment but be factually accurate if you've looked at the iOS 6 App Store on day one it would differ in a plethora of small details then the one we have now.
  - gfodor 13y ago
    You might be right but until there is actual confirmation from Apple that they perform data-driven experiments to improve the App Store, based upon the many glaring problems that have been left unfixed for years I have to assume there isn't anybody at the switch performing legitimate experiments to drive these design changes.
- hayksaakian 13y ago
  > It's probably the biggest example I can think of where Apple really shows that they are unquestionably not Google. I think you give Google too much credit. The Play store is about as abysmal, sans the OS-tied updates. (Search, lists, SEO, etc. are BAD).
  - gfodor 13y ago
    I wasn't comparing them in terms of app stores per se but the fact they don't really seem to be aggressively optimizing the UX on the store the way Google does with most of its (other) products. If Apple were doing it right, after this much time and this much data had been collected the App Store should basically be fast as hell and reading my mind when I log in, like Amazon does. I worked at Etsy for a number of years which has many similar attributes as the App Store, and lots of slow, steady progress was made by running many experiments and aggressively maintaining performance. I'd be licking my chops at the low hanging fruit if I were the one tasked with starting to hill-climb the App Store UX. There are so many things you could try, and with the type of traffic the App Store gets, 1% experiments could almost certainly get you sufficient data to really drive up conversion rates without negatively impacting many users along the way.
  - ibrahima 13y ago
    Eh, I just got an iPad for my mom, after owning several Android phones and tablets, and my sister used to use an iPod touch as well. We both agreed that the App Store is a piece of trash. It's slow, confusing to navigate around, and doesn't auto update your apps (I think I heard that's coming in iOS7?). It looks the same as it did on my sister's old 2G iPod touch. Meanwhile, the Play Store search and navigation used to suck, but they've both improved a lot, and they keep the highlighted content fresh and relevant, which surprises me coming from Google (though not having used an iOS device extensively I don't know how often they update their featured content, but from this post it sounds like not often enough). They've fixed most of the stupid issues they had before and I actually like using it now.
rictic 13y ago
It's not just the App Store, it's the entire iTunes store experience. It often takes half a dozen seconds or longer to load each page, and the search is bad. Two anecdotes: I wanted to buy an Iain M. Banks audiobook. I misspelled his name Ian M Banks, zero results. No hint that he exists. I wanted to give my dad A Game of Thrones for father's day, also on audiobook. The other entries in the series were there, but it isn't. Apparently it's not available? Even following the direct link from the author's site to iTunes doesn't work: https://itunes.apple.com/us/audiobook/game-thrones-song-ice-fire/id387502843 https://itunes.apple.com/us/audiobook/game-thrones-song-ice-... (this may be excusable, if there's some weird negotiation thing going on or something, it was just surprising) There's a lot that they do right, and I spend a lot of money in the iTunes store, but I never look forward to it because it's so slow and I experience so many errors.
hobs 13y ago
Its because it is this hell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects

by pflats 13y ago

gfodor 13y ago

It's stunning to me how the App Store has so many downloads and so much revenue and yet still is such a huge piece of trash. It needs to be much faster. It needs to be more engaging. The search needs to be improved. The taxonomy needs a massive overhaul. Users need to be more encouraged to review apps and the review process itself needs to be overhauled. App sellers need to be able to perform legit SEO on their keywords and get insights into where their downloads are coming from. Even buying an app feels sluggish and unresponsive. The recommendation system is crap because they recommend similar apps not complementary apps. The whole thing is just begging to be rebuilt, it's basically the same as when it first launched. It's a huge optimization problem and it's absolutely embarrassing they are not constantly A/B testing, iterating, and improving the experience. It feels like they have no data science team at all working on this product. The fact that the App Store only changes with iOS updates shows they are approaching this product incorrectly. They should have dozens of experiments running all the time trying to drive up install rates. It's probably the biggest example I can think of where Apple really shows that they are unquestionably not Google. It's hard to underestimate just how much of a boost Apple will see if they actually build a real, first-class, fast shopping experience into the App Store.

PiersonBro 13y ago
I agree with your sentiment but be factually accurate if you've looked at the iOS 6 App Store on day one it would differ in a plethora of small details then the one we have now.
- gfodor 13y ago
  You might be right but until there is actual confirmation from Apple that they perform data-driven experiments to improve the App Store, based upon the many glaring problems that have been left unfixed for years I have to assume there isn't anybody at the switch performing legitimate experiments to drive these design changes.
hayksaakian 13y ago
> It's probably the biggest example I can think of where Apple really shows that they are unquestionably not Google. I think you give Google too much credit. The Play store is about as abysmal, sans the OS-tied updates. (Search, lists, SEO, etc. are BAD).
- gfodor 13y ago
  I wasn't comparing them in terms of app stores per se but the fact they don't really seem to be aggressively optimizing the UX on the store the way Google does with most of its (other) products. If Apple were doing it right, after this much time and this much data had been collected the App Store should basically be fast as hell and reading my mind when I log in, like Amazon does. I worked at Etsy for a number of years which has many similar attributes as the App Store, and lots of slow, steady progress was made by running many experiments and aggressively maintaining performance. I'd be licking my chops at the low hanging fruit if I were the one tasked with starting to hill-climb the App Store UX. There are so many things you could try, and with the type of traffic the App Store gets, 1% experiments could almost certainly get you sufficient data to really drive up conversion rates without negatively impacting many users along the way.
- ibrahima 13y ago
  Eh, I just got an iPad for my mom, after owning several Android phones and tablets, and my sister used to use an iPod touch as well. We both agreed that the App Store is a piece of trash. It's slow, confusing to navigate around, and doesn't auto update your apps (I think I heard that's coming in iOS7?). It looks the same as it did on my sister's old 2G iPod touch. Meanwhile, the Play Store search and navigation used to suck, but they've both improved a lot, and they keep the highlighted content fresh and relevant, which surprises me coming from Google (though not having used an iOS device extensively I don't know how often they update their featured content, but from this post it sounds like not often enough). They've fixed most of the stupid issues they had before and I actually like using it now.

rictic 13y ago

It's not just the App Store, it's the entire iTunes store experience. It often takes half a dozen seconds or longer to load each page, and the search is bad. Two anecdotes: I wanted to buy an Iain M. Banks audiobook. I misspelled his name Ian M Banks, zero results. No hint that he exists. I wanted to give my dad A Game of Thrones for father's day, also on audiobook. The other entries in the series were there, but it isn't. Apparently it's not available? Even following the direct link from the author's site to iTunes doesn't work: https://itunes.apple.com/us/audiobook/game-thrones-song-ice-fire/id387502843 https://itunes.apple.com/us/audiobook/game-thrones-song-ice-... (this may be excusable, if there's some weird negotiation thing going on or something, it was just surprising) There's a lot that they do right, and I spend a lot of money in the iTunes store, but I never look forward to it because it's so slow and I experience so many errors.

hobs 13y ago

Its because it is this hell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects