4 ms·

tl;dr: Waaaah, the people with the money are making the rules and instead of doing it better myself I'll just write some clever insults from my corner. This is

by slawco 13y ago

tl;dr: Waaaah, the people with the money are making the rules and instead of doing it better myself I'll just write some clever insults from my corner. This is no different than dropping a Walmart in the middle of a small town and crushing all the family businesses. It's not utopian but it is how nature works. Those with the biggest teeth control the ecosystem. The only difference is the modern world has decided to use a point system to measure power. Don't like it? Strap on your entrepreneur hat and do it how you think it should be done. Oh, and teaching the "locals" who in the "ghetto" how to write HTML is not going to change anything.

voltagex_ 13y ago
From the article I get the sense that the author is doing quite a lot more than writing insults. I think empowering other people is a worthy pursuit, and definitely has a place here at HN. Also, it's a bit rich to say "I'll just write some clever insults from my corner" when you're doing the same.
velodrome 13y ago
"Oh, and teaching the "locals" who in the "ghetto" how to write HTML is not going to change anything." This argument is dumb. They are not going door to door asking people if they want to learn HTML. Code School, Code Academy, Khan Academy do not expect the local community to learn to code. Those who are interested will go seek them out. It's more like - if you build it, they will come. The people in the "ghetto" are kind of trouble in the short term. But they are in trouble everywhere. If these mogul(s) can pull it off, they can help create a more viable jobs pool. There needs to be more influx of money into the ecosystem, improvement in quality of education, and a shift away from the casino business. Basically, Las Vegas needs to be more family-friendly if it expects to be like a tech hub like San Francisco.
- slawco 13y ago
  He was the one calling it the place a ghetto. As you mentioned, bringing in more economic wealth will surely be better for the skilled and non-skilled alike. My argument is saying too much tech is the problem and then saying but I'm going to teach html is backwards.
- jzellis 13y ago
  Agreed, and we're actually going off of the Codecademy/Khan Academy course tracks for what we're teaching. But I don't think the moguls are creating more jobs here. They're importing people from elsewhere -- I'd say literally 75% of better of the Vegas Tech crowd hasn't been in town for more than six months. And they've shown zero interest in improving local education, either within the school system or independently. Unless you count Ruby meetup groups as education, which I don't. ;-)
  - velodrome 13y ago
    I recently saw a PBS documentary on the birth of Silicon Valley. At one time, it was place that had nothing except cheap land and lots of farms. Las Vegas is kind of like this. The key is to attract smart people. The problem with Las Vegas (or Nevada) is that the amount of engineers per capita is very low (about half of that in California). Also, business does have an impact on higher education. If you look at Stanford or Cal, they have a strong program in computer engineering. UCLA, USC both are strong in medical sciences. UCSD strong in biopharma. It could be a chicken and egg thing - at some point businesses will demand skilled technical people from the universities and will adapt their programs accordingly. Meetups allow me to learn from my peers. I would call that an educational tool. I suppose it depends what kind of meetups you go to...I like the powerpoint kind.
  - regularfry 13y ago
    > And they've shown zero interest in improving local education, either within the school system or independently. Surely that'll change over time? If there's an influx of well-paid young people now, within 10 years you'll have a pulse of well-off freshly-minted parents working its way through the system, some of whom are going to be incensed enough to fix the problems they see. In theory that sort of improvement shouldn't have to be centrally directed.
- lmm 13y ago
  SF is one of the most family-unfriendly places in the whole US. No-one can afford to live there with kids.
jzellis 13y ago
You appear to be one of those tedious people who think entrepreneurship is the solution to everything. I doubt it's worth my time, but I'll point out that that's fine for people who have not only the economic but social capital to become entrepreneurs. Not everybody has Mommy and Daddy to pay their bills while they dream up some retarded app, nor are many people even taught that that's something that they themselves can actually do. Hence teaching HTML classes in the ghetto, to try and help people without those resources that entrepreneurship is even possible for them. But since that won't change anything, I suppose that only middle and upper class folks should have the ability to change the world. Also, something to consider: if power is the only way the world works, whether we like it or not, what is human civilization for? I mean, I'm fairly sure I could kick all your fucking teeth down your throat if I wanted to...is that okay, because I have the power to do it? Or do we not behave in such a fashion, because we understand that might makes right is a philosophy only fit for hunter-gatherers and jerk-off geek libertarian fantasists?
- gruseom 13y ago
  > You appear to be one of those tedious people > I doubt it's worth my time > Not everybody has Mommy and Daddy to pay their bills while they dream up some retarded app > I suppose that only middle and upper class folks should have the ability to change the world > I'm fairly sure I could kick all your fucking teeth down your throat > jerk-off geek libertarian fantasists I sympathize with your underlying positions (at least I might—it's hard to tell when reading something this unpleasant), but can you please not use such aggressive and sarcastic language on HN? It violates both the letter and the spirit of the guidelines and, experience has shown, is one of the worst ways to degrade the quality of the site. I know how nannyesque that sounds, and I even enjoy fine flaming wit, but not here. It's the social contract of this place and it needs respecting.
  - jzellis 13y ago
    Fair enough, sorry. It seemed an appropriate response to the other poster's attempt at sarcastic dismissiveness, but I get your point. :-)

by slawco 13y ago

voltagex_ 13y ago

From the article I get the sense that the author is doing quite a lot more than writing insults. I think empowering other people is a worthy pursuit, and definitely has a place here at HN. Also, it's a bit rich to say "I'll just write some clever insults from my corner" when you're doing the same.

velodrome 13y ago

"Oh, and teaching the "locals" who in the "ghetto" how to write HTML is not going to change anything." This argument is dumb. They are not going door to door asking people if they want to learn HTML. Code School, Code Academy, Khan Academy do not expect the local community to learn to code. Those who are interested will go seek them out. It's more like - if you build it, they will come. The people in the "ghetto" are kind of trouble in the short term. But they are in trouble everywhere. If these mogul(s) can pull it off, they can help create a more viable jobs pool. There needs to be more influx of money into the ecosystem, improvement in quality of education, and a shift away from the casino business. Basically, Las Vegas needs to be more family-friendly if it expects to be like a tech hub like San Francisco.

slawco 13y ago
He was the one calling it the place a ghetto. As you mentioned, bringing in more economic wealth will surely be better for the skilled and non-skilled alike. My argument is saying too much tech is the problem and then saying but I'm going to teach html is backwards.
jzellis 13y ago
Agreed, and we're actually going off of the Codecademy/Khan Academy course tracks for what we're teaching. But I don't think the moguls are creating more jobs here. They're importing people from elsewhere -- I'd say literally 75% of better of the Vegas Tech crowd hasn't been in town for more than six months. And they've shown zero interest in improving local education, either within the school system or independently. Unless you count Ruby meetup groups as education, which I don't. ;-)
- velodrome 13y ago
  I recently saw a PBS documentary on the birth of Silicon Valley. At one time, it was place that had nothing except cheap land and lots of farms. Las Vegas is kind of like this. The key is to attract smart people. The problem with Las Vegas (or Nevada) is that the amount of engineers per capita is very low (about half of that in California). Also, business does have an impact on higher education. If you look at Stanford or Cal, they have a strong program in computer engineering. UCLA, USC both are strong in medical sciences. UCSD strong in biopharma. It could be a chicken and egg thing - at some point businesses will demand skilled technical people from the universities and will adapt their programs accordingly. Meetups allow me to learn from my peers. I would call that an educational tool. I suppose it depends what kind of meetups you go to...I like the powerpoint kind.
- regularfry 13y ago
  > And they've shown zero interest in improving local education, either within the school system or independently. Surely that'll change over time? If there's an influx of well-paid young people now, within 10 years you'll have a pulse of well-off freshly-minted parents working its way through the system, some of whom are going to be incensed enough to fix the problems they see. In theory that sort of improvement shouldn't have to be centrally directed.
lmm 13y ago
SF is one of the most family-unfriendly places in the whole US. No-one can afford to live there with kids.

jzellis 13y ago

You appear to be one of those tedious people who think entrepreneurship is the solution to everything. I doubt it's worth my time, but I'll point out that that's fine for people who have not only the economic but social capital to become entrepreneurs. Not everybody has Mommy and Daddy to pay their bills while they dream up some retarded app, nor are many people even taught that that's something that they themselves can actually do. Hence teaching HTML classes in the ghetto, to try and help people without those resources that entrepreneurship is even possible for them. But since that won't change anything, I suppose that only middle and upper class folks should have the ability to change the world. Also, something to consider: if power is the only way the world works, whether we like it or not, what is human civilization for? I mean, I'm fairly sure I could kick all your fucking teeth down your throat if I wanted to...is that okay, because I have the power to do it? Or do we not behave in such a fashion, because we understand that might makes right is a philosophy only fit for hunter-gatherers and jerk-off geek libertarian fantasists?

gruseom 13y ago
> You appear to be one of those tedious people > I doubt it's worth my time > Not everybody has Mommy and Daddy to pay their bills while they dream up some retarded app > I suppose that only middle and upper class folks should have the ability to change the world > I'm fairly sure I could kick all your fucking teeth down your throat > jerk-off geek libertarian fantasists I sympathize with your underlying positions (at least I might—it's hard to tell when reading something this unpleasant), but can you please not use such aggressive and sarcastic language on HN? It violates both the letter and the spirit of the guidelines and, experience has shown, is one of the worst ways to degrade the quality of the site. I know how nannyesque that sounds, and I even enjoy fine flaming wit, but not here. It's the social contract of this place and it needs respecting.
- jzellis 13y ago
  Fair enough, sorry. It seemed an appropriate response to the other poster's attempt at sarcastic dismissiveness, but I get your point. :-)