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Sigh: "So far are things going the way you thought they would regarding a public debate?" "Initially I was very encouraged. Unfortunately, the mainstream medi

Sigh: "So far are things going the way you thought they would regarding a public debate?" "Initially I was very encouraged. Unfortunately, the mainstream media now seems far more interested in what I said when I was 17 or what my girlfriend looks like rather than, say, the largest program of suspicionless surveillance in human history." :(

grecy 13y ago
Remember, the mainstream media is for entertainment, not to keep you informed about significant events.
- revscat 13y ago
  That, and government propaganda. Look at CNN's lede: "Washington (CNN) -- The man who admitted leaking classified documents about U.S. surveillance programs purportedly went online live on Monday to declare the truth would come out even if he is jailed or killed, and said President Barack Obama did not fulfill his promises and expanded several 'abusive' national security initiatives." This is textbook propaganda. The news media like CNN may partially be about entertainment, but it is also about propagating the government position, specifically the intelligence agencies positions. http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/17/politics/nsa-leaks/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/17/politics/nsa-leaks/index.html?...
  - stellar678 13y ago
    Can you explain the propaganda angle there? To me, that reads like a straightforward summary of what is going on.
    - lukateake 13y ago
      To me, "purportedly" is the glaring weaselword and is intended to cast aspersions or otherwise impugn the whole 'construct' of Mr. Snowden as illegitimate.
    - revscat 13y ago
      Sure. To start with, take a look at that first clause: "The man who admitted leaking classified documents..." The framing of this is right off the bat aggressive, casting him in the light of a criminal. Were CNN to want to cast him in a positive light they could have chosen to write it something like this: "The man who exposed widespread secret surveillance of American's electronic communications..." Instead CNN chose to emphasize the criminal aspect, rather than the civil liberties/anti-democratic aspect. Next: "... purportedly went online..." The use of the word "purportedly" here is interesting. Why is that questioned? To associate doubt with him. It's subtle, but nevertheless there it is. Next: "declare the truth would come out even if he is jailed or killed". Out of all the questions which were answered CNN focused on this one because it most easily supports the "egotistical" narrative they are attempting to paint him with. Implication: "He is setting himself up as some kind of martyr! How arrogant!" Next: "Obama did not fulfill his promises and expanded several 'abusive' national security initiatives." This one is, to me, the most blatant. The scare quotes around "abusive" are of course the most obvious. But look how the frame it: "national security initiatives". Not "domestic spying programs", or "electronic surveillance mechanisms", or something else. After all, no one who calls themselves reasonable can be opposed to national security! It's subtle, and of course debatable. But it's certainly present. CNN has their own slant, and it is obviously pro-NSA. Also note that nowhere to they actually link to the Q&A page. Let's rewrite it, communicate the same information, but make it skeptical towards the NSA: "Edward Snowden, the former NSA contractor who exposed widespread secret surveillance of American's electronic communications and online activities, did an online question-and-answer session today, making himself available to provide follow-up answers to questions raised by concerned citizens over the reach and power of the notoriously secretive intelligence agency."
      - samstave 13y ago
        If I could give you HN-Gold, I would. Also, the "..'abusive'.." quotes serve to show a disdain for Snowden's position; "Snowden claims this was 'abusive' - and we know him to be a criminal traitor, if you think the acts of the NSA were abusive, then you clearly are a traitor sympathizer. I recall the reports of CIA handlers years ago in CNN, clearly they are still there... (I am looking for a link, but so far came up blank)
      - 13y ago
- prollyignored 13y ago
  Revolution can be creative. Where are the bards ?
- malandrew 13y ago
  It would be nice if they were at least intellectually honest about it by calling a spade a spade, even if that spade is themselves. "The following articles presents discussion of the man behind the leaks. We are providing this information to satiate the curiosity of our readers. However, despite the fact that we are providing these stories, we strongly encourage readers to view these articles for what they are, rubbernecking. We strongly urge readers to keep their judgement confined to the facts we know about the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program and to exercise control so that their opinion of Snowden does not prevent them from forming an objective opinion on government spying programs. etc. etc. etc."

grecy 13y ago

Remember, the mainstream media is for entertainment, not to keep you informed about significant events.

revscat 13y ago
That, and government propaganda. Look at CNN's lede: "Washington (CNN) -- The man who admitted leaking classified documents about U.S. surveillance programs purportedly went online live on Monday to declare the truth would come out even if he is jailed or killed, and said President Barack Obama did not fulfill his promises and expanded several 'abusive' national security initiatives." This is textbook propaganda. The news media like CNN may partially be about entertainment, but it is also about propagating the government position, specifically the intelligence agencies positions. http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/17/politics/nsa-leaks/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/17/politics/nsa-leaks/index.html?...
- stellar678 13y ago
  Can you explain the propaganda angle there? To me, that reads like a straightforward summary of what is going on.
  - lukateake 13y ago
    To me, "purportedly" is the glaring weaselword and is intended to cast aspersions or otherwise impugn the whole 'construct' of Mr. Snowden as illegitimate.
  - revscat 13y ago
    Sure. To start with, take a look at that first clause: "The man who admitted leaking classified documents..." The framing of this is right off the bat aggressive, casting him in the light of a criminal. Were CNN to want to cast him in a positive light they could have chosen to write it something like this: "The man who exposed widespread secret surveillance of American's electronic communications..." Instead CNN chose to emphasize the criminal aspect, rather than the civil liberties/anti-democratic aspect. Next: "... purportedly went online..." The use of the word "purportedly" here is interesting. Why is that questioned? To associate doubt with him. It's subtle, but nevertheless there it is. Next: "declare the truth would come out even if he is jailed or killed". Out of all the questions which were answered CNN focused on this one because it most easily supports the "egotistical" narrative they are attempting to paint him with. Implication: "He is setting himself up as some kind of martyr! How arrogant!" Next: "Obama did not fulfill his promises and expanded several 'abusive' national security initiatives." This one is, to me, the most blatant. The scare quotes around "abusive" are of course the most obvious. But look how the frame it: "national security initiatives". Not "domestic spying programs", or "electronic surveillance mechanisms", or something else. After all, no one who calls themselves reasonable can be opposed to national security! It's subtle, and of course debatable. But it's certainly present. CNN has their own slant, and it is obviously pro-NSA. Also note that nowhere to they actually link to the Q&A page. Let's rewrite it, communicate the same information, but make it skeptical towards the NSA: "Edward Snowden, the former NSA contractor who exposed widespread secret surveillance of American's electronic communications and online activities, did an online question-and-answer session today, making himself available to provide follow-up answers to questions raised by concerned citizens over the reach and power of the notoriously secretive intelligence agency."
    - samstave 13y ago
      If I could give you HN-Gold, I would. Also, the "..'abusive'.." quotes serve to show a disdain for Snowden's position; "Snowden claims this was 'abusive' - and we know him to be a criminal traitor, if you think the acts of the NSA were abusive, then you clearly are a traitor sympathizer. I recall the reports of CIA handlers years ago in CNN, clearly they are still there... (I am looking for a link, but so far came up blank)
    - 13y ago
prollyignored 13y ago
Revolution can be creative. Where are the bards ?
malandrew 13y ago
It would be nice if they were at least intellectually honest about it by calling a spade a spade, even if that spade is themselves. "The following articles presents discussion of the man behind the leaks. We are providing this information to satiate the curiosity of our readers. However, despite the fact that we are providing these stories, we strongly encourage readers to view these articles for what they are, rubbernecking. We strongly urge readers to keep their judgement confined to the facts we know about the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program and to exercise control so that their opinion of Snowden does not prevent them from forming an objective opinion on government spying programs. etc. etc. etc."