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I think it's a little rich that Snowden is complaining about being labelled a traitor - morality aside, what he did seems like a pretty clear-cut case of treaso

by BruceIV 13y ago

I think it's a little rich that Snowden is complaining about being labelled a traitor - morality aside, what he did seems like a pretty clear-cut case of treason from a legal standpoint (IANAL).

jwoah12 13y ago
Where is he complaining about it? I see this: "Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American"
- BruceIV 13y ago
  There was something about not being able to get a fair trial stateside. Although, I don't know what the laws are like in the States, but in Canada you can go to jail if you have security clearance and reveal information that if true would be classified. If the legal situation is similar in the US, he's pretty clearly guilty.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    You're saying he shouldn't get a fair trial because it's a "clear-cut case" of him being a traitor. That is kind of the point, without a fair trial there is NO "case"; there is just power, blackmail and a whole lot of bootlicking.
PavlovsCat 13y ago
And if you don't set morality aside? There can be such a gap between "legal" and "just", and before anyone asks me to set morality aside, I would love to first hear their arguments for me doing that, other than that they do it.
- BruceIV 13y ago
  I was merely saying that I don't feel like arguing the morality of it, whereas he'd need a very clever lawyer and a sympathetic judge to get out of the treason charge should he ever stand trial.
  - habitue 13y ago
    Actually, it looks like treason will be a hard sell in Snowden's case: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-92687.html http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-92687.h... From someone who is a lawyer: “I do not believe it is treason,” said George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley. “There is nothing to suggest that his motivation was to assist our enemies or a foreign power.” The gist of the article is that they would most likely prosecute him for espionage (which doesn't require him to be spying "for" anybody), and that the treason/traitor allegations by officials are for rhetorical effect (though they mention it isn't entirely impossible to charge him with treason using some very tortured logic).
    - BruceIV 13y ago
      Interesting. Thanks for the heads up.
datasage 13y ago
What he did was disclose classified information. Which itself is illegal. But its a jump to automatically assume that disclosure of classified information is treason. Now if he turns around and starts helping China with the information he has, then he will be pretty much done for.

by BruceIV 13y ago

I think it's a little rich that Snowden is complaining about being labelled a traitor - morality aside, what he did seems like a pretty clear-cut case of treason from a legal standpoint (IANAL).

jwoah12 13y ago

Where is he complaining about it? I see this: "Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American"

BruceIV 13y ago
There was something about not being able to get a fair trial stateside. Although, I don't know what the laws are like in the States, but in Canada you can go to jail if you have security clearance and reveal information that if true would be classified. If the legal situation is similar in the US, he's pretty clearly guilty.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  You're saying he shouldn't get a fair trial because it's a "clear-cut case" of him being a traitor. That is kind of the point, without a fair trial there is NO "case"; there is just power, blackmail and a whole lot of bootlicking.

PavlovsCat 13y ago

And if you don't set morality aside? There can be such a gap between "legal" and "just", and before anyone asks me to set morality aside, I would love to first hear their arguments for me doing that, other than that they do it.

BruceIV 13y ago
I was merely saying that I don't feel like arguing the morality of it, whereas he'd need a very clever lawyer and a sympathetic judge to get out of the treason charge should he ever stand trial.
- habitue 13y ago
  Actually, it looks like treason will be a hard sell in Snowden's case: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-92687.html http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-92687.h... From someone who is a lawyer: “I do not believe it is treason,” said George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley. “There is nothing to suggest that his motivation was to assist our enemies or a foreign power.” The gist of the article is that they would most likely prosecute him for espionage (which doesn't require him to be spying "for" anybody), and that the treason/traitor allegations by officials are for rhetorical effect (though they mention it isn't entirely impossible to charge him with treason using some very tortured logic).
  - BruceIV 13y ago
    Interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

datasage 13y ago

What he did was disclose classified information. Which itself is illegal. But its a jump to automatically assume that disclosure of classified information is treason. Now if he turns around and starts helping China with the information he has, then he will be pretty much done for.