6 ms·

Amazing poetic writing skills, love it: "Ask yourself: if I were a Chinese spy, why wouldn't I have flown directly into Beijing? I could be living in a

Amazing poetic writing skills, love it: "Ask yourself: if I were a Chinese spy, why wouldn't I have flown directly into Beijing? I could be living in a palace petting a phoenix by now." why did I not drop our of school and get a 200K job:-(

jnbiche 13y ago
The money quote: "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it."
- gcv 13y ago
  Variants of that argument (usually related to smoking, alcohol, and backyard pools) have not persuaded anyone in debates over the Second Amendment. They seem unlikely to persuade anyone in debates over the Fourth.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Even if nobody listens, it still needs to be said.
  - moistgorilla 13y ago
    It's a different situation. American's really like the idea of having the power to protect themselves. That's why when you throw the statistic that you will most likely never need the gun they don't care. This is because despite the odds being so low they are afraid of being that 1 or 2%. However, American's really don't like the idea of an overly powerful government watching over your shoulder. The idea that the government is supposedly using gathering this information and that it doesn't even have a legitimate use case is unappealing to most.
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      I think you interpreted the parent as saying people should be persuaded to support gun control; I think the parent was saying people should be persuaded to oppose gun control. I base this on the "(usually related to smoking, alcohol, and backyard pools)" - the implicit argument being "each of these things kill more people than firearms, why is it the firearms you want to regulate?"
      - dustingetz 13y ago
        It's because one has a decision to drink, smoke, or buy a pool. One doesn't get to choose if they will be shot.
        jlgreco 13y ago
        No, I don't think that is the reason. Many parents would rather that their children not visit the home of a friend that had guns in it. Would as many parents be apprehensive about sending their children to a home with a pool? I suspect not. There may be legitimate reasons that they are treated differently in a way that does not immediately make sense when you examine the risks they pose, but I don't think that choice or lack of it is that reason. I think that you are looking for something more subtle.
        dllthomas 13y ago
        Agency is scarier than lack of agency.
        cheald 13y ago
        Speaking as a parent who has left his children to be babysat at houses with both guns and pools, the pools are a far bigger concern. When both are treated as the dangers they can be, neither is a threat. It's much easier to forget about a pool than a gun, though, and a gun is much less likely to be accessible to a child than a pool. Kids who can't swim can fall into a pool and drown before you realize that anything's wrong, and playing around pools is normal kid behavior, while playing with Actual Real Firearms is not. I wouldn't leave my kids at any place that I felt was going to be a tangible danger to them - be that a house with a pool and a back door that doesn't have a child lock or pool gate, or a house of an irresponsible gun owner, or a house with exposed electrical wiring, or anything else that I feel poses a material threat to my child's life.
    - niels_olson 13y ago
      > Americans really don't like the idea of an overly powerful government watching over your shoulder Most Americans haven't thought about it hard enough to make a meaningful personal decision and have allowed themselves to adopt the first external opinion they were offered, so it's about 50-50 pro-con on the question. What you're doing, is giving yourself permission to not engage other people about the issue. "Oh, I don't need to talk to grandma, I'm sure she's already on my side."
kannan 13y ago
Very effective too "Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American"
- samstave 13y ago
  By far my favorite quote against my most hated American.
  - daywalker2 13y ago
    You've just been added to the "List"
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    I might hate that guy who kept those women locked up a bit more...
    - arg01 13y ago
      Well that guys actions resulted in only 3 women and a child being locked up and tortured for a length of time that is now over...
      - dllthomas 13y ago
        I said might. Actual outcomes need to be weighed against counterfactuals, and I think the claim that the alternative would have been worse in Cheney's case - while I dispute it - is better than in the other.
        arg01 13y ago
        I understand you were not being definitive and I doubt very much that people would disagree that Cheney is a better person than that rapist given the same ability to effect the world. Having said that Cheney had a lot of power and a lot of impact. In relative terms the alternative to Cheney in power does not need to be much better to result in an absolute impact greater than the 4 lives affected by that rapist. My statement was meant to point out that the absolute rather than the relative "evilness" of him is a viable reason for some to hate him.
tlrobinson 13y ago
"If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school."
- synctext 13y ago
  Wow, clearly there is a historical quote being born in this text..
- tankbot 13y ago
  This was by far my favorite quote from his answers. Perfect way to cap off that whole paragraph.
  - dsuth 13y ago
    Yeah, that's incredibly cool. Make a meaningful statement whilst throwing their own rhetoric back at them. The more I hear/read from this guy, the more I like him!
brown9-2 13y ago
Of course, if you were a Chinese spy but you also wanted the world to believe you were not, this is exactly what you would say.
- LoganCale 13y ago
  If you were a Chinese spy, why would you play the game of releasing the information to the public at all? You'd just go straight to the Chinese and disappear into their protection. There's nothing to be gained by an elaborate charade as a whistleblower.
  - yummies 13y ago
    A damning allegation with global economic consequences is easily dismissed as propaganda if it comes from the Chinese government. Not so if it comes from a whistleblower.
    - crististm 13y ago
      So NSA hired a Chinese spy and didn't know it?
  - brown9-2 13y ago
    Well, his revelations about the extent of US spying in China/HK certainly helps take the focus off of how much cyber-spying China does on the US.
- kbenson 13y ago
  Of course, if you were an American spy and wanted to discredit him, this is exactly what you would say. We can do this all day...
  - narrator 13y ago
    But that's taking the second derivative of the situation. Most people can barely take the first.
walshemj 13y ago
The phoniexs and palaces is what the officer who is your handler says you will get :-)
- samstave 13y ago
  Heh - Just like all the promises of the military recruiters to me when they saw I aced the asvab. "No thanks!"
vph 13y ago
That is an evasive answer to the question: "The US Government alleged that you gave sensitive information to the Chinese." Based on his answer, he probably did give sensitive information to the Chinese.
- Cushman 13y ago
  Just for people like you: No. I have had no contact with the Chinese government. Just like with the Guardian and the Washington Post, I only work with journalists. The things you can learn if you click the link, huh?
  - freyr 13y ago
    We learned that (taking him at his word), he hasn't personally handed classified information over to the Chinese government, but he has handed it over to an unknown number of journalists. Who have the journalists passed it along to, voluntarily or through coercion? We have no idea. Once it's out of his hands, Snowden himself can't know for sure.
    - Cushman 13y ago
      And? There's a huge gulf between "maybe China will find out if he leaks stuff to the public" (duh) and "maybe he's a Chinese spy." (huh?) Are we supposed to believe that Chinese intelligence has been wringing its hands for the past decade, just wishing a US whistleblower would reveal a bunch of stuff to the media so they can figure out what's going on? They do have real spies, you know. This is a smokescreen.
      - freyr 13y ago
        I didn't say he's a Chinese spy. Neither did the person asking the question ("The US Government alleged that you gave sensitive information to the Chinese.") I'm saying, he very possibly gave sensitive information to the Chinese government, perhaps inadvertently or through indiscretion. You don't have to be a Chinese spy to do that (he was actually the one who presented the false equivalence).

jnbiche 13y ago

The money quote: "Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it."

gcv 13y ago
Variants of that argument (usually related to smoking, alcohol, and backyard pools) have not persuaded anyone in debates over the Second Amendment. They seem unlikely to persuade anyone in debates over the Fourth.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Even if nobody listens, it still needs to be said.
- moistgorilla 13y ago
  It's a different situation. American's really like the idea of having the power to protect themselves. That's why when you throw the statistic that you will most likely never need the gun they don't care. This is because despite the odds being so low they are afraid of being that 1 or 2%. However, American's really don't like the idea of an overly powerful government watching over your shoulder. The idea that the government is supposedly using gathering this information and that it doesn't even have a legitimate use case is unappealing to most.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    I think you interpreted the parent as saying people should be persuaded to support gun control; I think the parent was saying people should be persuaded to oppose gun control. I base this on the "(usually related to smoking, alcohol, and backyard pools)" - the implicit argument being "each of these things kill more people than firearms, why is it the firearms you want to regulate?"
    - dustingetz 13y ago
      It's because one has a decision to drink, smoke, or buy a pool. One doesn't get to choose if they will be shot.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        No, I don't think that is the reason. Many parents would rather that their children not visit the home of a friend that had guns in it. Would as many parents be apprehensive about sending their children to a home with a pool? I suspect not. There may be legitimate reasons that they are treated differently in a way that does not immediately make sense when you examine the risks they pose, but I don't think that choice or lack of it is that reason. I think that you are looking for something more subtle.
        dllthomas 13y ago
        Agency is scarier than lack of agency.
        cheald 13y ago
        Speaking as a parent who has left his children to be babysat at houses with both guns and pools, the pools are a far bigger concern. When both are treated as the dangers they can be, neither is a threat. It's much easier to forget about a pool than a gun, though, and a gun is much less likely to be accessible to a child than a pool. Kids who can't swim can fall into a pool and drown before you realize that anything's wrong, and playing around pools is normal kid behavior, while playing with Actual Real Firearms is not. I wouldn't leave my kids at any place that I felt was going to be a tangible danger to them - be that a house with a pool and a back door that doesn't have a child lock or pool gate, or a house of an irresponsible gun owner, or a house with exposed electrical wiring, or anything else that I feel poses a material threat to my child's life.
  - niels_olson 13y ago
    > Americans really don't like the idea of an overly powerful government watching over your shoulder Most Americans haven't thought about it hard enough to make a meaningful personal decision and have allowed themselves to adopt the first external opinion they were offered, so it's about 50-50 pro-con on the question. What you're doing, is giving yourself permission to not engage other people about the issue. "Oh, I don't need to talk to grandma, I'm sure she's already on my side."

kannan 13y ago

Very effective too "Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American"

samstave 13y ago
By far my favorite quote against my most hated American.
- daywalker2 13y ago
  You've just been added to the "List"
- dllthomas 13y ago
  I might hate that guy who kept those women locked up a bit more...
  - arg01 13y ago
    Well that guys actions resulted in only 3 women and a child being locked up and tortured for a length of time that is now over...
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      I said might. Actual outcomes need to be weighed against counterfactuals, and I think the claim that the alternative would have been worse in Cheney's case - while I dispute it - is better than in the other.
      - arg01 13y ago
        I understand you were not being definitive and I doubt very much that people would disagree that Cheney is a better person than that rapist given the same ability to effect the world. Having said that Cheney had a lot of power and a lot of impact. In relative terms the alternative to Cheney in power does not need to be much better to result in an absolute impact greater than the 4 lives affected by that rapist. My statement was meant to point out that the absolute rather than the relative "evilness" of him is a viable reason for some to hate him.

tlrobinson 13y ago

"If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school."

synctext 13y ago
Wow, clearly there is a historical quote being born in this text..
tankbot 13y ago
This was by far my favorite quote from his answers. Perfect way to cap off that whole paragraph.
- dsuth 13y ago
  Yeah, that's incredibly cool. Make a meaningful statement whilst throwing their own rhetoric back at them. The more I hear/read from this guy, the more I like him!

brown9-2 13y ago

Of course, if you were a Chinese spy but you also wanted the world to believe you were not, this is exactly what you would say.

LoganCale 13y ago
If you were a Chinese spy, why would you play the game of releasing the information to the public at all? You'd just go straight to the Chinese and disappear into their protection. There's nothing to be gained by an elaborate charade as a whistleblower.
- yummies 13y ago
  A damning allegation with global economic consequences is easily dismissed as propaganda if it comes from the Chinese government. Not so if it comes from a whistleblower.
  - crististm 13y ago
    So NSA hired a Chinese spy and didn't know it?
- brown9-2 13y ago
  Well, his revelations about the extent of US spying in China/HK certainly helps take the focus off of how much cyber-spying China does on the US.
kbenson 13y ago
Of course, if you were an American spy and wanted to discredit him, this is exactly what you would say. We can do this all day...
- narrator 13y ago
  But that's taking the second derivative of the situation. Most people can barely take the first.

walshemj 13y ago

The phoniexs and palaces is what the officer who is your handler says you will get :-)

samstave 13y ago
Heh - Just like all the promises of the military recruiters to me when they saw I aced the asvab. "No thanks!"

vph 13y ago

That is an evasive answer to the question: "The US Government alleged that you gave sensitive information to the Chinese." Based on his answer, he probably did give sensitive information to the Chinese.

Cushman 13y ago
Just for people like you: No. I have had no contact with the Chinese government. Just like with the Guardian and the Washington Post, I only work with journalists. The things you can learn if you click the link, huh?
- freyr 13y ago
  We learned that (taking him at his word), he hasn't personally handed classified information over to the Chinese government, but he has handed it over to an unknown number of journalists. Who have the journalists passed it along to, voluntarily or through coercion? We have no idea. Once it's out of his hands, Snowden himself can't know for sure.
  - Cushman 13y ago
    And? There's a huge gulf between "maybe China will find out if he leaks stuff to the public" (duh) and "maybe he's a Chinese spy." (huh?) Are we supposed to believe that Chinese intelligence has been wringing its hands for the past decade, just wishing a US whistleblower would reveal a bunch of stuff to the media so they can figure out what's going on? They do have real spies, you know. This is a smokescreen.
    - freyr 13y ago
      I didn't say he's a Chinese spy. Neither did the person asking the question ("The US Government alleged that you gave sensitive information to the Chinese.") I'm saying, he very possibly gave sensitive information to the Chinese government, perhaps inadvertently or through indiscretion. You don't have to be a Chinese spy to do that (he was actually the one who presented the false equivalence).