4 ms·

If you're not planning on paying, and want to create a team, you'd better learn how to program. I was in your same position several months ago. I tried looking

by kyro 19y ago

If you're not planning on paying, and want to create a team, you'd better learn how to program. I was in your same position several months ago. I tried looking for programmers, and those that I found were turned off by the fact that I had no programming knowledge/experience. So, I got fed up and decided to learn how to program. I started with Python, dabbled in some SQL, and am currently trying to refine my Django skills. Time, dedication, and documentation is all it really required. It's not that bad.

thehigherlife 19y ago
Are there books you suggest i read, or tutorials to start with?
- kyro 19y ago
  Yeah. For Python: http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.diveintopython.org/ http://www.diveintopython.org/ I also read the O'Reilly book on Python - 'Programming Python' There's Python.org for all docs, of course. For Django - http://www.djangoproject.com http://www.djangoproject.com - they have a cool tutorial on the front page, and http://www.djangobook.com http://www.djangobook.com, then move to the documentation from djangoproject.
- henning 19y ago
  Even though getting started with PHP and MySQL is easy, please avoid the temptation as it will brain-damage you in ways that will take a long time to recover from.
  - SwellJoe 19y ago
    I tend to agree with this (PHP is perhaps my least favorite language outside of C#/Java). But there is some really good PHP code out there. The problem is finding it--particularly for a non-programmer. DokuWiki is very nice. Flyspray aint even half bad. Wordpress, while extraordinarily popular, is a bit painful to look at...it's getting better, but it's not ideal to learn from (I'm not knocking Wordpress...I use it for two blogs and recommend it to everyone who asks about blogging software). The majority of Joomla is downright scary bad--I feel dumber every day that I spend working with it.
- nanijoe 19y ago
  Django may not be the way to go for a someone new to web development, for the simple reason that there is exactly ONE place to get any documentation, and that source is less than excellent. If for some reason you dislike ruby on rails (my first choice), I would say learn PHP. All you are trying to do is develop a web app, take the easiest path. Finally,when your app gets complex and you need to hire programmers, you will thank me for this advice
- bootload 19y ago
  "... Are there books you suggest i read, or tutorials to start with? ..." I'd suggest trying to change your "mindset" as well, building and reading supporting information at the same time. One such way is to read "SEIA" (Software Engineering for Internet Applications, Andersson, Greenspun & Grumet) which is online or in print and follow the book through ~ http://philip.greenspun.com/seia/ http://philip.greenspun.com/seia/ The book/course is easy to read and most important devoid of advocacy. The good thing is you can start now at no real cost. But it will take time and effort though.
webwright 19y ago
This is potentially terrible advice. Temperamentally, many people are poorly suited for programming. The OP might be a great designer, writer and bootstrap marketeer who could benefit from a partnership. I'd advocate for assessing your skills and honestly figuring out if you have anything to offer to a founding team (a lot of skills really don't matter until you've actually built something of value). If not, sure-- learn to code. Learn to design. But if you do have valuable skills, find a partner who has complementary skills and get rolling. If you can't find a partner, it's likely that your idea isn't as good as you thought it was. ;-)
- kyro 19y ago
  Well, not too long ago I posted my dilemma about me being very business oriented and having design skill, and still not being able to find programmers as they were turned off. And the majority of the replies I received were ones telling me to learn how to program. Just because I'm learning to code doesn't mean, however, that I am tossing my other skills away. I find that I have a much much much better understanding of the mechanics behind apps and that at the very least, i'll be able to connect on a much deeper level with another programmer if I were to assemble a team and not take a significant programming position. You're right, perhaps he may turn out to be an awful coder, but at the very least, establishing a common thread of communication by which a programmer can relay his concerns to a designer or a marketer, and for them to understand, in my opinion, is pretty valuable.
  - Shooter 19y ago
    I think kyro is 100% right on this point. I learned to program just for these exact reasons (better understanding of the problem domain for a business, better communication with technical staff, etc.) By all rights, I should be the absolute worst programmer in the world. But based on unofficial world rankings, it turns out that I'm only in the bottom five ;-) Programming skills (however limited) and business savvy are a very potent combination. I don't regret learning to code at all...
  - Shorel 19y ago
    I think that you have to learn how to program because if you don't need the skills in your day to day work, at least you need the skills to judge correctly how much work a given task takes, and to understand the possible complications of the process.

by kyro 19y ago

thehigherlife 19y ago

Are there books you suggest i read, or tutorials to start with?

kyro 19y ago
Yeah. For Python: http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ http://www.diveintopython.org/ http://www.diveintopython.org/ I also read the O'Reilly book on Python - 'Programming Python' There's Python.org for all docs, of course. For Django - http://www.djangoproject.com http://www.djangoproject.com - they have a cool tutorial on the front page, and http://www.djangobook.com http://www.djangobook.com, then move to the documentation from djangoproject.
henning 19y ago
Even though getting started with PHP and MySQL is easy, please avoid the temptation as it will brain-damage you in ways that will take a long time to recover from.
- SwellJoe 19y ago
  I tend to agree with this (PHP is perhaps my least favorite language outside of C#/Java). But there is some really good PHP code out there. The problem is finding it--particularly for a non-programmer. DokuWiki is very nice. Flyspray aint even half bad. Wordpress, while extraordinarily popular, is a bit painful to look at...it's getting better, but it's not ideal to learn from (I'm not knocking Wordpress...I use it for two blogs and recommend it to everyone who asks about blogging software). The majority of Joomla is downright scary bad--I feel dumber every day that I spend working with it.
nanijoe 19y ago
Django may not be the way to go for a someone new to web development, for the simple reason that there is exactly ONE place to get any documentation, and that source is less than excellent. If for some reason you dislike ruby on rails (my first choice), I would say learn PHP. All you are trying to do is develop a web app, take the easiest path. Finally,when your app gets complex and you need to hire programmers, you will thank me for this advice
bootload 19y ago
"... Are there books you suggest i read, or tutorials to start with? ..." I'd suggest trying to change your "mindset" as well, building and reading supporting information at the same time. One such way is to read "SEIA" (Software Engineering for Internet Applications, Andersson, Greenspun & Grumet) which is online or in print and follow the book through ~ http://philip.greenspun.com/seia/ http://philip.greenspun.com/seia/ The book/course is easy to read and most important devoid of advocacy. The good thing is you can start now at no real cost. But it will take time and effort though.

webwright 19y ago

This is potentially terrible advice. Temperamentally, many people are poorly suited for programming. The OP might be a great designer, writer and bootstrap marketeer who could benefit from a partnership. I'd advocate for assessing your skills and honestly figuring out if you have anything to offer to a founding team (a lot of skills really don't matter until you've actually built something of value). If not, sure-- learn to code. Learn to design. But if you do have valuable skills, find a partner who has complementary skills and get rolling. If you can't find a partner, it's likely that your idea isn't as good as you thought it was. ;-)

kyro 19y ago
Well, not too long ago I posted my dilemma about me being very business oriented and having design skill, and still not being able to find programmers as they were turned off. And the majority of the replies I received were ones telling me to learn how to program. Just because I'm learning to code doesn't mean, however, that I am tossing my other skills away. I find that I have a much much much better understanding of the mechanics behind apps and that at the very least, i'll be able to connect on a much deeper level with another programmer if I were to assemble a team and not take a significant programming position. You're right, perhaps he may turn out to be an awful coder, but at the very least, establishing a common thread of communication by which a programmer can relay his concerns to a designer or a marketer, and for them to understand, in my opinion, is pretty valuable.
- Shooter 19y ago
  I think kyro is 100% right on this point. I learned to program just for these exact reasons (better understanding of the problem domain for a business, better communication with technical staff, etc.) By all rights, I should be the absolute worst programmer in the world. But based on unofficial world rankings, it turns out that I'm only in the bottom five ;-) Programming skills (however limited) and business savvy are a very potent combination. I don't regret learning to code at all...
- Shorel 19y ago
  I think that you have to learn how to program because if you don't need the skills in your day to day work, at least you need the skills to judge correctly how much work a given task takes, and to understand the possible complications of the process.