4 ms·

I was really hoping not to see the phrase "direct access" this time.

by esolyt 13y ago

pilif 13y ago
But we get another statement that iMessages is end-to-end encrypted. Apple continues to state that, but there's also some evidence to the contrary. Like newly authorized devices being able to somehow retrieve the chat history. Someone more capable than I should really investigate iMessages.
- r3m6 13y ago
  "Apple can not decrypt it" - does it mean somebody else can? Or is it encrypted at a level that is virtually unencryptable with today's technology?
  - ParkerK 13y ago
    It means Apple doesn't have access to the encryption keys, as it's done peer to peer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol
  - natch 13y ago
    It could mean somebody else can, because of key escrow and partial key escrow. Even if the key is generated on the device and stays on the device, you have to look at how the key is generated. With key escrow, the messages can be secure against attacks by everyone except those who have the escrowed portion of the key.
    - szc 13y ago
      And to do that you must also transmit the escrowed part of the key in the protocol -- which is 100% detectable as a blob of "extra but seemingly unnecessary data". Do you see that? Does anybody see that? Has anybody seen that?
- quaunaut 13y ago
  Why is that so suspect? That's just TNO-style encryption- as in, you encrypt it going up, and download the encrypted chat history, before decrypting it using your login information. Now, if they're sending it back to you as plaintext? Sure okay, that's reason to be concerned. But simply getting back your chat history isn't any reason to doubt the end-to-end encryption.
  - comex 13y ago
    I think that chat history is actually only retrieved when you restore from an iCloud backup (which backs up everything on the phone, and can be disabled), not when a new device signs in.
    - nudded 13y ago
      I can confirm this, as I just did a clean install and set it up as a new iPhone.
- ParkerK 13y ago
  >Like newly authorized devices being able to somehow retrieve the chat history. That's like saying it's suspicious that I can make an encrypted backup of my laptop, and then "magically" get that data unencypted on my new laptop. There's nothing weird about being to access your own data, even on a different device.

I was really hoping not to see the phrase "direct access" this time.

by esolyt 13y ago

I was really hoping not to see the phrase "direct access" this time.

pilif 13y ago

But we get another statement that iMessages is end-to-end encrypted. Apple continues to state that, but there's also some evidence to the contrary. Like newly authorized devices being able to somehow retrieve the chat history. Someone more capable than I should really investigate iMessages.

r3m6 13y ago
"Apple can not decrypt it" - does it mean somebody else can? Or is it encrypted at a level that is virtually unencryptable with today's technology?
- ParkerK 13y ago
  It means Apple doesn't have access to the encryption keys, as it's done peer to peer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-to-Point_Protocol
- natch 13y ago
  It could mean somebody else can, because of key escrow and partial key escrow. Even if the key is generated on the device and stays on the device, you have to look at how the key is generated. With key escrow, the messages can be secure against attacks by everyone except those who have the escrowed portion of the key.
  - szc 13y ago
    And to do that you must also transmit the escrowed part of the key in the protocol -- which is 100% detectable as a blob of "extra but seemingly unnecessary data". Do you see that? Does anybody see that? Has anybody seen that?
quaunaut 13y ago
Why is that so suspect? That's just TNO-style encryption- as in, you encrypt it going up, and download the encrypted chat history, before decrypting it using your login information. Now, if they're sending it back to you as plaintext? Sure okay, that's reason to be concerned. But simply getting back your chat history isn't any reason to doubt the end-to-end encryption.
- comex 13y ago
  I think that chat history is actually only retrieved when you restore from an iCloud backup (which backs up everything on the phone, and can be disabled), not when a new device signs in.
  - nudded 13y ago
    I can confirm this, as I just did a clean install and set it up as a new iPhone.
ParkerK 13y ago
>Like newly authorized devices being able to somehow retrieve the chat history. That's like saying it's suspicious that I can make an encrypted backup of my laptop, and then "magically" get that data unencypted on my new laptop. There's nothing weird about being to access your own data, even on a different device.