11 ms·

Pirate Party Australia

59 points by zensavona 13y ago

contingencies 13y ago
So how does this work .. can the Pirate Party of Australia send preferences to Wikileaks?
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  In the Senate, voters may vote "above the line" or "below the line". If you vote "below the line", you must number every candidate in order of your preference. Every. Single. Box. In some states there are hundreds of candidates. One NSW ballot paper was nicknamed "the tablecloth". If you vote "above the line", you are required only to tick or mark one box. That box delegates your voting preference to a party, who have registered a preset order of preference with the Australian Electoral Commission. Your vote will be counted according to that party's scheme. Almost everyone votes above the line in the Senate, so the arrangement of preferences by different parties can have surprising effects on the final composition of the Senate. As you can imagine, this leads to a lot of horse-trading, known as "preference deals". I vote below the line because I like to work backwards in order of craziness.
  - contingencies 13y ago
    Thanks for the explanation. On the face of it, it would then seem that the system is rigged to reduce the honest preferences of the more informed or politically engaged portion of the population through technicalia (forgot a box, wrote same number twice, etc.).
    - jacques_chester 13y ago
      No, the system is basically honest and above board. It just has quirks that would be made worse if they were "fixed". Our electoral system has evolved over the past century to be, quite honestly, one of the most open, progressive and balanced electoral systems in the world. What we in Australia call "exhaustive preferential voting" is sometimes called "instant runoff voting" elsewhere. Having to number every box is a feature, not a bug. If you don't have an exhaustive ballot, then in practice political parties will encourage voters to "just vote 1" -- to mark only one box. And then you've arrived at a first-past-the-post system, which is what IRV is trying to get away from in the first place. In the House of Reps, few candidates turn out because it's very difficult for a non-major party candidate to win. It happens, but only rarely. So in any given seat it would be unusual to find more than 5 or 6 candidates -- 2 majors, a green, whatever microparty is currently making a push and perhaps the local village idiot or somebody who doesn't realise that running as an independent is a mug's game. But the Senate is different. The Senate is based on proportional representation. Each State elects 6 senators, and the Senate seats are effectively allocated to parties according to the final distribution of votes. In a recursive process, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated and their votes redistributed according to the voter preferences, up and up until there are 6 people with a full "quota" of votes. The thing about the Senate is that the final Senate seat in any given state is usually in play. The top 4 seats are almost always won equally by the majors; the 5th usually won by a major or the Greens. But the 6th seats can and frequently do wind up in the hands of the most unlikely people because of the complicated preference deals I described above. Because there is a chance for a microparty candidate to wind up in the Senate, lots of people run. Being a Senator is a pretty sweet deal. Good pay, your own offices and staff, travel entitlements and the like. And if you luck into holding the balance of power in the Senate, you've just become a very powerful individual.
      - contingencies 13y ago
        Thanks. I'm Australian, I just left very young and never really went back, and hold multiple other citizenships as well. Definitely going to hassle my local consulate about voting this election though.
Falkvinge 13y ago
Shout-out to my activist colleagues down under. Good to see y'all.
girvo 13y ago
My plan for the future is to attempt to ressurect the Australian Democrats. They're centre-left, and align with my views nearly perfectly (except for their opinions on nuclear power). The Pirate Party are interesting, but I don't see them having enough of an impact here, what with the Greens and Independents usually taking the "third way" spot. Still great to see, though :)
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  The Democrats died when they became centre-left. They thrived when they were genuinely centrist: neither left nor right. The Democrats used to win Senate votes approximately equally from both Labor and Liberal supporters. When Meg Lees negotiated to introduce the GST, Stott-Despoja deposed her and yanked the party towards the left. In doing so she alienated all of the Liberal voters who'd previously given about half of the party's vote. The Democrats kept trying to lurch further left to shore up the votes that were left, but ran smack into the Greens, who had already hoovered all those votes up. Then they died. The Liberal centrist vote, incidentally, has nowhere left to go. So the coalition has outperformed all the others in the Senate -- that's how Howard wound up with a Senate majority in the first place. If Stott-Despoja had stuck to the Democrat formula, there's a reasonable chance they'd still be around.
  - girvo 13y ago
    Just wanted to say, that's a really nice analysis of what happened :) Ahhh, Ms Star-Destroyer.
- shirro 13y ago
  The dems were founded by an ex-Liberal minister. They were supposed to be the socially liberal centrist alternative to the increasingly not-very-liberal conservative party called the Liberals. They moved left into competition with the more charismatic Greens and got wiped out. Unfortunately people in Australia don't seem to get the idea of LibDem parties and it is unlikely we will see one with decent leadership or candidates any time soon unless someone as high profile as Chipp leaves a major. I thought it might have been Turnbull but he doesn't seem interested and is so discredited by his record on the NBN I don't think he has much of a future.
_k 13y ago
We have a pirate party in Belgium and I have to say it's interesting but I honestly don't see how people are going to vote for them.
- subsystem 13y ago
  The EU election is where the swedish pirate party has managed to get seats. It's also nice to have a party for "protest voters" that isn't far-right or far-left.
infographic- 13y ago
Just another disorganised party that rather spends time arguing amongst itself than actually fight issues at hand. Just another form of clicktivism. I resigned for just this reason.
coopdog 13y ago
Honestly both the major parties here are such dud choices (so bad that a third party won a seat in the lower house last election), and with PRISM hopefully becoming a voting issue the pirate party are surely going to get some notice this election. Thank the FSM for preferential voting
- vacri 13y ago
  We regularly have minor parties and independents in the lower house, this is just the first time that they have held the balance of power. The ironic thing is that despite being a minority government, the 'hung' or 'hamstrung' government, there has been more legislation passed this term than any previously. But you wouldn't read it in the papers, which have performed the most amazing political smiling assassination.
  - JimJames 13y ago
    Our media does an amazing job at presenting labor and liberal as the only two options. Especially by suggesting that voting third party is throwing your vote away (which it isn't because of our preference system). I have no faith in Australian politics anymore, every campaign seems to be entirely focused around mud slinging and fear mongering.
    - milfot 13y ago
      i have no faith in our leader.. (rupert)
    - jacques_chester 13y ago
      I ran as a small party candidate. Based on coverage, there are three major parties. The only microparty that gets any coverage is the Australian Sex Party and that's only because of the undergraduate boorishness of their name. Katter and Palmer will get coverage this time in the "lighter side" columns and then we'll go back to having the majors take turns at the Treasury benches while the Greens get to pretend they are a genuine alternative because nobody actually reads their policies. I miss the Democrats. They were boring centrists and it was wonderful.
Mexxer 13y ago
I live in Germany where we have one of the most successful pirate parties with several seats in state parliaments. I had a alot of hope in them but they just fight with each other and are in no way ready and way to chaotic for national parliament. It's kinda sad.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  Australia's political structure is actually subtly and importantly different from a lot of others. From the British we have a fused legislative/executive Westminster system. From the Americans we borrowed various features of our constitution. But what is particularly unique in the Australian context is our party discipline. It is probably the most rigid in the world. There's a lot less horse-trading. Our current Parliament is only the second in history where it has been at all necessary for the major parties to negotiate with independents to obtain "confidence and supply" -- ie to form a government.
brotchie 13y ago
Are the Pirate Party running candidates for the senate in this coming election? I think they have a good chance of getting a few seats is so... the youth vote is big and I foresee a lot of GenYers putting 1 above the line for the Pirate Party.

59 points by zensavona 13y ago

contingencies 13y ago

So how does this work .. can the Pirate Party of Australia send preferences to Wikileaks?

jacques_chester 13y ago
In the Senate, voters may vote "above the line" or "below the line". If you vote "below the line", you must number every candidate in order of your preference. Every. Single. Box. In some states there are hundreds of candidates. One NSW ballot paper was nicknamed "the tablecloth". If you vote "above the line", you are required only to tick or mark one box. That box delegates your voting preference to a party, who have registered a preset order of preference with the Australian Electoral Commission. Your vote will be counted according to that party's scheme. Almost everyone votes above the line in the Senate, so the arrangement of preferences by different parties can have surprising effects on the final composition of the Senate. As you can imagine, this leads to a lot of horse-trading, known as "preference deals". I vote below the line because I like to work backwards in order of craziness.
- contingencies 13y ago
  Thanks for the explanation. On the face of it, it would then seem that the system is rigged to reduce the honest preferences of the more informed or politically engaged portion of the population through technicalia (forgot a box, wrote same number twice, etc.).
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    No, the system is basically honest and above board. It just has quirks that would be made worse if they were "fixed". Our electoral system has evolved over the past century to be, quite honestly, one of the most open, progressive and balanced electoral systems in the world. What we in Australia call "exhaustive preferential voting" is sometimes called "instant runoff voting" elsewhere. Having to number every box is a feature, not a bug. If you don't have an exhaustive ballot, then in practice political parties will encourage voters to "just vote 1" -- to mark only one box. And then you've arrived at a first-past-the-post system, which is what IRV is trying to get away from in the first place. In the House of Reps, few candidates turn out because it's very difficult for a non-major party candidate to win. It happens, but only rarely. So in any given seat it would be unusual to find more than 5 or 6 candidates -- 2 majors, a green, whatever microparty is currently making a push and perhaps the local village idiot or somebody who doesn't realise that running as an independent is a mug's game. But the Senate is different. The Senate is based on proportional representation. Each State elects 6 senators, and the Senate seats are effectively allocated to parties according to the final distribution of votes. In a recursive process, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated and their votes redistributed according to the voter preferences, up and up until there are 6 people with a full "quota" of votes. The thing about the Senate is that the final Senate seat in any given state is usually in play. The top 4 seats are almost always won equally by the majors; the 5th usually won by a major or the Greens. But the 6th seats can and frequently do wind up in the hands of the most unlikely people because of the complicated preference deals I described above. Because there is a chance for a microparty candidate to wind up in the Senate, lots of people run. Being a Senator is a pretty sweet deal. Good pay, your own offices and staff, travel entitlements and the like. And if you luck into holding the balance of power in the Senate, you've just become a very powerful individual.
    - contingencies 13y ago
      Thanks. I'm Australian, I just left very young and never really went back, and hold multiple other citizenships as well. Definitely going to hassle my local consulate about voting this election though.

Falkvinge 13y ago

Shout-out to my activist colleagues down under. Good to see y'all.

girvo 13y ago

My plan for the future is to attempt to ressurect the Australian Democrats. They're centre-left, and align with my views nearly perfectly (except for their opinions on nuclear power). The Pirate Party are interesting, but I don't see them having enough of an impact here, what with the Greens and Independents usually taking the "third way" spot. Still great to see, though :)

jacques_chester 13y ago
The Democrats died when they became centre-left. They thrived when they were genuinely centrist: neither left nor right. The Democrats used to win Senate votes approximately equally from both Labor and Liberal supporters. When Meg Lees negotiated to introduce the GST, Stott-Despoja deposed her and yanked the party towards the left. In doing so she alienated all of the Liberal voters who'd previously given about half of the party's vote. The Democrats kept trying to lurch further left to shore up the votes that were left, but ran smack into the Greens, who had already hoovered all those votes up. Then they died. The Liberal centrist vote, incidentally, has nowhere left to go. So the coalition has outperformed all the others in the Senate -- that's how Howard wound up with a Senate majority in the first place. If Stott-Despoja had stuck to the Democrat formula, there's a reasonable chance they'd still be around.
- girvo 13y ago
  Just wanted to say, that's a really nice analysis of what happened :) Ahhh, Ms Star-Destroyer.
shirro 13y ago
The dems were founded by an ex-Liberal minister. They were supposed to be the socially liberal centrist alternative to the increasingly not-very-liberal conservative party called the Liberals. They moved left into competition with the more charismatic Greens and got wiped out. Unfortunately people in Australia don't seem to get the idea of LibDem parties and it is unlikely we will see one with decent leadership or candidates any time soon unless someone as high profile as Chipp leaves a major. I thought it might have been Turnbull but he doesn't seem interested and is so discredited by his record on the NBN I don't think he has much of a future.

_k 13y ago

We have a pirate party in Belgium and I have to say it's interesting but I honestly don't see how people are going to vote for them.

subsystem 13y ago
The EU election is where the swedish pirate party has managed to get seats. It's also nice to have a party for "protest voters" that isn't far-right or far-left.

infographic- 13y ago

Just another disorganised party that rather spends time arguing amongst itself than actually fight issues at hand. Just another form of clicktivism. I resigned for just this reason.

coopdog 13y ago

Honestly both the major parties here are such dud choices (so bad that a third party won a seat in the lower house last election), and with PRISM hopefully becoming a voting issue the pirate party are surely going to get some notice this election. Thank the FSM for preferential voting

vacri 13y ago
We regularly have minor parties and independents in the lower house, this is just the first time that they have held the balance of power. The ironic thing is that despite being a minority government, the 'hung' or 'hamstrung' government, there has been more legislation passed this term than any previously. But you wouldn't read it in the papers, which have performed the most amazing political smiling assassination.
- JimJames 13y ago
  Our media does an amazing job at presenting labor and liberal as the only two options. Especially by suggesting that voting third party is throwing your vote away (which it isn't because of our preference system). I have no faith in Australian politics anymore, every campaign seems to be entirely focused around mud slinging and fear mongering.
  - milfot 13y ago
    i have no faith in our leader.. (rupert)
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    I ran as a small party candidate. Based on coverage, there are three major parties. The only microparty that gets any coverage is the Australian Sex Party and that's only because of the undergraduate boorishness of their name. Katter and Palmer will get coverage this time in the "lighter side" columns and then we'll go back to having the majors take turns at the Treasury benches while the Greens get to pretend they are a genuine alternative because nobody actually reads their policies. I miss the Democrats. They were boring centrists and it was wonderful.

Mexxer 13y ago

I live in Germany where we have one of the most successful pirate parties with several seats in state parliaments. I had a alot of hope in them but they just fight with each other and are in no way ready and way to chaotic for national parliament. It's kinda sad.

jacques_chester 13y ago
Australia's political structure is actually subtly and importantly different from a lot of others. From the British we have a fused legislative/executive Westminster system. From the Americans we borrowed various features of our constitution. But what is particularly unique in the Australian context is our party discipline. It is probably the most rigid in the world. There's a lot less horse-trading. Our current Parliament is only the second in history where it has been at all necessary for the major parties to negotiate with independents to obtain "confidence and supply" -- ie to form a government.

brotchie 13y ago

Are the Pirate Party running candidates for the senate in this coming election? I think they have a good chance of getting a few seats is so... the youth vote is big and I foresee a lot of GenYers putting 1 above the line for the Pirate Party.