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Woz: This is not my America
- csense 13y agoWhy don't libertarian views have much influence in either party?
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- rosser 13y agoBecause libertarian views are typically some flavor of anti-authoritarian, and — although for at least cosmetically different reasons — both mainstream US political parties are very much authoritarian.
- seanot 13y agoPoliticians believe in government -- generally powerful government. There is no place for a powerful, forceful, government in libertarian philosophy. Why would politicians or those who support their actions have an interest in a philosophy that is at odds with their beliefs?
- csense 13y ago> Politicians believe in government Interesting insight. I'm thinking you're saying that people who choose a political career are a self-selected sample of people who believe government is an effective tool. But what if there are people who are alarmed at the growth of government power, and decide to pursue a political career because they want to make stopping it their life's work? Your line of reasoning would say -- "but such people would believe that government is ineffective, and wouldn't choose a political career as the most effective way to implement the changes they believe are needed." The problem is that I don't buy it. I also don't buy that people who've already chosen political careers will never switch their views, if the government gets repressive enough.
- caryhartline 13y agoPolitical views first have to be popular with people before they are popular with the political party they are in. Libertarian views are not popular with people.
- rosser 13y agoTo the extent you're right, I have to ask (rhetorically) whether libertarian views are unpopular because they're disagreed with, or they're unpopular from lack of exposure. Years ago, I worked for a company that sublet a room in our office to a friend of the boss's, with whom I had a number of long and wide-ranging conversations. In one of those discussions, he showed me an article he'd just read, about a then-recent survey of US high school students in which some 85% of them believed it was illegal to start a third party in the US political system. I thought that statistic was disturbing enough, until I got to the article's main point: asking whether that was due to a failure of the American educational system, or a frighteningly subtle success of something else?
- come2gether 13y agolibertarian views are unpopular partially as a result of intensive subversion.
- mynameishere 13y agoLibertarian views have never had influence ever. You get it in rhetoric but rarely in practice. Rare cases of real libertarian action... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion ...are met with violent government force. This won't change, ever.
- rdl 13y agoNew Zealand had a libertarian revolution in the 1990s, although it's walked back a lot on that recently. One of the few cases of non-violent positive change like that.
- csense 13y agoFirst point: Wasn't the American Revolution largely about the overreaches of the British government? What about the sentiments of isolationism in the US with respect to WWI and WWII? (Apologies to non-US readers; all my examples are from US history because I'm most familiar with it.) Second point: Even if your comment's true, you didn't answer the question -- is there a reason that "libertarian views have never had influence ever," or is it just a coincidence?
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- Jach 13y agohttp://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-i-am-not-libertarian.html http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-i-a... may be relevant to you, but I think http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/05/democraphobia-goes-slightly-viral.html http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/05/democra... sums up part of the issue nicely. "Because if you and your friends can parrot Marxism and get it together to capture the State, Marxism gives you: (a) money; (b) power; and probably (c) women. Whereas if you and your friends can parrot Rawlsekianism and get it together to capture the State, Rawlsekianism gives you - what? Philosophical satisfaction? So: which of these creeds would you expect to be more popular with the masses?"
- timerickson 13y agoPrevious discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5884362 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5884362
- pvnick 13y agoThis is hilarious: >What do ordinary Americans think? >But, more importantly, what does Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak think?
- newnewnew 13y agoOf course not. But it's the only America on offer.
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- jussij 13y agoI think Woz is right when he suggest the American constitution died with the Patriot Act. American's transition from a free state into a police state.
- rdl 13y agoIt was on life support for a long time before that, though, and plenty of stuff was done outside the law from 2001+ which became legalized under FAA/etc.; if it died with the Patriot Act, I guess those count as raping the corpse.
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