It's interesting that no one has a problem comparing a Framework to a straight-up language. You'll never get an accurate comparison this way and I think that's

It's interesting that no one has a problem comparing a Framework to a straight-up language. You'll never get an accurate comparison this way and I think that's a huge point. Everyone marvels at what RoR can achieve in terms of logic/decision/data/presentation separation, but doesn't take into account that there are probably 20 or so PHP frameworks that also implement the MVC approach and do a lot of the same things while maintaining the flexibility of php.