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I seem to be discussing this topic with my friends almost on a regular basis now. However, and as we all agree, it's much difficult putting them into use. We n

by thex86 13y ago

I seem to be discussing this topic with my friends almost on a regular basis now. However, and as we all agree, it's much difficult putting them into use. We need these services. If I get lost, I need Google Maps to find the way. I need GPS. These are things that have no other alternative. Likewise, if I want to talk with a friend over video and I tell him I don't want to use Skype, he laughs at me. Will he download and install Jitsi just for me? No, that is not how it works. If we are using these tools for ourselves, say personal browsing using Tor, that is fine. But the moment you start interacting with someone else and expect them to send you PGP encrypted emails, not to use Google Talk/Skype, people just don't care and will not switch to other alternatives. Also, you will get laughed at for being a paranoid nut. Unless these secure alternatives become the norm, good luck expecting others to change. That means your family and friends who just want to use a service and don't care about the privacy problems behind it. TL;DR: our reliance on these technologies makes it difficult to completely let go of them. And for most of them, there are no privacy-preserving alternatives.

rmc 13y ago
As an alternative to google maps, try openstreetmap. It's got good coverage, and there are numerous routing engines based off it.
- switch007 13y ago
  Also, try a map ;-) (semi serious)
- brightsize 13y ago
  On Android I use OSMAnd+ (uses OSM data) and have had good luck with using it to supplement GMaps. The map coverage is fantastic and IIRC you can download as much map data as your device will hold. That really helped me in Europe where my American mobile phone (Sprint network) did not work but its GPS receiver still did.
nsns 13y ago
Not to mention all those who lack the required expertise, yet also deserve privacy. That's why instead of looking for ways to ditch these services, we need to make sure they are audited on a regular basis, and that government agencies don't feel they are above the law; to remind our masters that only our consent gives them the power they crave.
- thex86 13y ago
  While I agree with your sentiment, doing that will likely be difficult. However, the end-to-end encryption is what we need, so that we don't have to rely or expect service providers to change. Things like PGP for sending emails, OTR for IM, Jitsi for video conferencing. All these do end-to-end encryption and this is what we should be moving to. So if you are using Gmail, but you only send PGP emails, great. You are using Google's services while not giving them anything.
zxcdw 13y ago
Minimizing their use minimizes the reason to have any fear or concern over the data NSA or whatever collects. It's always better to use alternatives to the eavesdropped service, but the benefit comes from minimizing and eliminating the amount of eavesdropped data, so it's always good to minimize the usage. If it means to use Skype only in strictly required cases, I think it's acceptable as long as you realize that whatever you say or imply directly or indirectly or whatever can be gathered through metadata or side-channels, it's a no biggie really. The best hide is to hide in the crowd and realize the situation and act accordingly.
ippisl 13y ago
First install optional encryption software. Something like textsecure and redphone. This way you use your phone in the same way, but if there's an option for encryption, you can use it. Then maybe just use with your spouse . since those conversations are very private, maybe you could Convince him/her. And it does buy you protection from law and inadvertent snooping by friends(if I understand otr correctly). Now talk about this with your friends. They might want to use the same strategy. And now some of you're friends have the software, it's just a matter of setting keys. Seems possible.
SkyMarshal 13y ago
>We need these services. If I get lost, I need Google Maps to find the way. I need GPS. These are things that have no other alternative. No you don't. These services didn't even exist ten years ago and people got along just fine. Get rid of them and I guarantee your intrepid little human resourcefulness will find ways of managing without them. They're first world luxuries, nothing more.

by thex86 13y ago

rmc 13y ago

As an alternative to google maps, try openstreetmap. It's got good coverage, and there are numerous routing engines based off it.

switch007 13y ago
Also, try a map ;-) (semi serious)
brightsize 13y ago
On Android I use OSMAnd+ (uses OSM data) and have had good luck with using it to supplement GMaps. The map coverage is fantastic and IIRC you can download as much map data as your device will hold. That really helped me in Europe where my American mobile phone (Sprint network) did not work but its GPS receiver still did.

nsns 13y ago

Not to mention all those who lack the required expertise, yet also deserve privacy. That's why instead of looking for ways to ditch these services, we need to make sure they are audited on a regular basis, and that government agencies don't feel they are above the law; to remind our masters that only our consent gives them the power they crave.

thex86 13y ago
While I agree with your sentiment, doing that will likely be difficult. However, the end-to-end encryption is what we need, so that we don't have to rely or expect service providers to change. Things like PGP for sending emails, OTR for IM, Jitsi for video conferencing. All these do end-to-end encryption and this is what we should be moving to. So if you are using Gmail, but you only send PGP emails, great. You are using Google's services while not giving them anything.

zxcdw 13y ago

Minimizing their use minimizes the reason to have any fear or concern over the data NSA or whatever collects. It's always better to use alternatives to the eavesdropped service, but the benefit comes from minimizing and eliminating the amount of eavesdropped data, so it's always good to minimize the usage. If it means to use Skype only in strictly required cases, I think it's acceptable as long as you realize that whatever you say or imply directly or indirectly or whatever can be gathered through metadata or side-channels, it's a no biggie really. The best hide is to hide in the crowd and realize the situation and act accordingly.

ippisl 13y ago

First install optional encryption software. Something like textsecure and redphone. This way you use your phone in the same way, but if there's an option for encryption, you can use it. Then maybe just use with your spouse . since those conversations are very private, maybe you could Convince him/her. And it does buy you protection from law and inadvertent snooping by friends(if I understand otr correctly). Now talk about this with your friends. They might want to use the same strategy. And now some of you're friends have the software, it's just a matter of setting keys. Seems possible.

SkyMarshal 13y ago

>We need these services. If I get lost, I need Google Maps to find the way. I need GPS. These are things that have no other alternative. No you don't. These services didn't even exist ten years ago and people got along just fine. Get rid of them and I guarantee your intrepid little human resourcefulness will find ways of managing without them. They're first world luxuries, nothing more.