4 ms·

I don't get what it is he's not getting. Could you explain?

by jwandborg 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- anon1385 13y ago
  I wasn't suggesting you don't get it. I was just highlighting a contradiction, although one that I think illustrates a point; that there is generally a tradeoff between freedom and convenience. Different people have different levels of expertise, amounts of time and tolerance of inconvenience that influences their software choices. One other point, in the article you say: The PRISM debacle of the last week confirmed my fears and reasoning, and so I made the decision to accelerate the schedule. If it is government spying you are worried about then using non-free web apps is surely a much greater risk than non-free native software. At least you can stick a proxy in front of your Windows box and block/monitor where it is connecting to and what data it sends. With web apps your data could have been siphoned off to some NSA data centre without you ever knowing about it. Also I find it mildly depressing that being able to retrieve your own data is seen as the mark of a really 'free and open' webapp. Even with the most proprietary of native software I typically still control my data. Webapps took us a step backwards in that regard and partial reversal on that front is not a sign of great progress, it's a sign that we are struggling to even maintain the status quo.
  - steveklabnik 13y ago
    I agree with all these points, which is one of the reasons I'm working on this transition and talking about it publicly.
    - catmanjan 13y ago
      Except nowhere in your post do you say transition, or moving towards, or any other thesaurus term I can come up with.
catmanjan 13y ago
The "point" of FSM. Watch RMS's talks. Sure they're a bit ranty, but if you're going to claim to "use as much free software" as possible then actually do it. That means gNewSense (or whatever else is FSF approved) and no proprietary drivers. If you're going to umm and ahh about this then don't be misleading, just say you're moving to open source, not free software.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  "Moving towards" implies transit. If you're in transit, you're not yet at your destination.
  - catmanjan 13y ago
    Except you don't say moving towards, you say returning, which I'm guessing is also wrong because you never used "as much free software as possible" before.
    - steveklabnik 13y ago
      Sorry, 'moving towards' is how I've been describing it, but the title did end up 'returning.' To be clear: this is a process. You can't do it all in one day. I have different priorities for different bits of software. Other than Ghostery, all the software on my machine is Free. Web services are a much trickier issue, and frankly, I'm more concerned about my usage of Gmail than I am Svbtle.
      - catmanjan 13y ago
        No. If your blog post is anything to go by, almost none of the software on your machine is Free. Especially your OS! Every program must fulfill the following requirements: The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2). The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this. If you can listen to an MP3 on your machine, chances are it is using a licensed codec, breaking freedom 3. If anything more restrictive than GNU GPL is used for any of the hardware drivers then it is in breach of freedom 1!

I don't get what it is he's not getting. Could you explain?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

anon1385 13y ago
I wasn't suggesting you don't get it. I was just highlighting a contradiction, although one that I think illustrates a point; that there is generally a tradeoff between freedom and convenience. Different people have different levels of expertise, amounts of time and tolerance of inconvenience that influences their software choices. One other point, in the article you say: The PRISM debacle of the last week confirmed my fears and reasoning, and so I made the decision to accelerate the schedule. If it is government spying you are worried about then using non-free web apps is surely a much greater risk than non-free native software. At least you can stick a proxy in front of your Windows box and block/monitor where it is connecting to and what data it sends. With web apps your data could have been siphoned off to some NSA data centre without you ever knowing about it. Also I find it mildly depressing that being able to retrieve your own data is seen as the mark of a really 'free and open' webapp. Even with the most proprietary of native software I typically still control my data. Webapps took us a step backwards in that regard and partial reversal on that front is not a sign of great progress, it's a sign that we are struggling to even maintain the status quo.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  I agree with all these points, which is one of the reasons I'm working on this transition and talking about it publicly.
  - catmanjan 13y ago
    Except nowhere in your post do you say transition, or moving towards, or any other thesaurus term I can come up with.

catmanjan 13y ago

The "point" of FSM. Watch RMS's talks. Sure they're a bit ranty, but if you're going to claim to "use as much free software" as possible then actually do it. That means gNewSense (or whatever else is FSF approved) and no proprietary drivers. If you're going to umm and ahh about this then don't be misleading, just say you're moving to open source, not free software.

steveklabnik 13y ago
"Moving towards" implies transit. If you're in transit, you're not yet at your destination.
- catmanjan 13y ago
  Except you don't say moving towards, you say returning, which I'm guessing is also wrong because you never used "as much free software as possible" before.
  - steveklabnik 13y ago
    Sorry, 'moving towards' is how I've been describing it, but the title did end up 'returning.' To be clear: this is a process. You can't do it all in one day. I have different priorities for different bits of software. Other than Ghostery, all the software on my machine is Free. Web services are a much trickier issue, and frankly, I'm more concerned about my usage of Gmail than I am Svbtle.
    - catmanjan 13y ago
      No. If your blog post is anything to go by, almost none of the software on your machine is Free. Especially your OS! Every program must fulfill the following requirements: The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2). The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this. If you can listen to an MP3 on your machine, chances are it is using a licensed codec, breaking freedom 3. If anything more restrictive than GNU GPL is used for any of the hardware drivers then it is in breach of freedom 1!