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> but if Prism includes other not-yet-revealed acquisition methods, might still be substantially true Yes, but that's close to being a tautology: what outlandi

by leoc 13y ago

> but if Prism includes other not-yet-revealed acquisition methods, might still be substantially true Yes, but that's close to being a tautology: what outlandish claim might not turn out to be true if in future startling new revelations supported it? In fact, direct access in the NSA-has-root sense is less likely in light of the PRISM slides: why file 702 orders and dicker with webco lawyers if you're able and willing to get whatever you want through some kind of back channel? Why create a Top Secret overview and training resource for Internet surveillance and apparently not mention this backdoor?

gojomo 13y ago
There's lots of evidence there's way deeper unrevealed stuff: hints from earlier NSA-careerist whistleblowers and Snowden. ~40 more slides in the PRISM deck that Greenwald has seen. Possibly thousands more documents Snowden has provided to Greenwald and perhaps other journalists. Representative Sanchez (D-CA) describing what's public so far as "the tip of the iceberg". Representative Nadler (D-NY) essentially acknowledging warrantless domestic wiretaps, at analyst discretion, in apparent contradiction to sworn testimony of General Alexander a few days ago, and President Obama's comments a week ago. So while of course, we can't assume every covert acquisition method darkly imaginable is happening, it would also be foolish to assume that exactly what has been clearly documented so far is the full story. Why the trouble of extra legal orders and a paper trail if the NSA already had deeper covert access? Well, the government isn't efficient and different levels can't always work together. For example, why did the DoJ use more normal procedures to get AP phone records, when the NSA already had all that data? Also, when you have a treasure trove of info obtained in illegal ways, or in ways you don't want to admit, and you want to act in ways revealing that you have that info, you can try to get it again in a second, redundant way: one that you can explain, and maybe legally rationalize. And when nobody inside or outside your organization has the whole picture, the fact that there's some legal process for getting some info from, for example, Google, might serve as plausible cover deflecting questions about how exactly so much more info winds up in the system. In fact, that's one possible mechanism for the PRISM slides' author thinking that the access to Google et al is so much more powerful and 'direct' than the companies' own measured response process can explain. They're each blind men feeling different parts of the elephant.

by leoc 13y ago

gojomo 13y ago

There's lots of evidence there's way deeper unrevealed stuff: hints from earlier NSA-careerist whistleblowers and Snowden. ~40 more slides in the PRISM deck that Greenwald has seen. Possibly thousands more documents Snowden has provided to Greenwald and perhaps other journalists. Representative Sanchez (D-CA) describing what's public so far as "the tip of the iceberg". Representative Nadler (D-NY) essentially acknowledging warrantless domestic wiretaps, at analyst discretion, in apparent contradiction to sworn testimony of General Alexander a few days ago, and President Obama's comments a week ago. So while of course, we can't assume every covert acquisition method darkly imaginable is happening, it would also be foolish to assume that exactly what has been clearly documented so far is the full story. Why the trouble of extra legal orders and a paper trail if the NSA already had deeper covert access? Well, the government isn't efficient and different levels can't always work together. For example, why did the DoJ use more normal procedures to get AP phone records, when the NSA already had all that data? Also, when you have a treasure trove of info obtained in illegal ways, or in ways you don't want to admit, and you want to act in ways revealing that you have that info, you can try to get it again in a second, redundant way: one that you can explain, and maybe legally rationalize. And when nobody inside or outside your organization has the whole picture, the fact that there's some legal process for getting some info from, for example, Google, might serve as plausible cover deflecting questions about how exactly so much more info winds up in the system. In fact, that's one possible mechanism for the PRISM slides' author thinking that the access to Google et al is so much more powerful and 'direct' than the companies' own measured response process can explain. They're each blind men feeling different parts of the elephant.