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Darn, I'd always kind of hoped we in Canada weren't so surveillance crazy too. If so, then the other problem is bringing attention to it. If something like Edw

by cclogg 13y ago

Darn, I'd always kind of hoped we in Canada weren't so surveillance crazy too. If so, then the other problem is bringing attention to it. If something like Edward Snowden happens in the US, it gets a lot of attention and world-wide recognition. If it happens in Canada, only we know about it and it's likely to slip from our news rather quickly (or so it would seem).

canistr 13y ago
Given the financial resources of CSEC, DND, and Canada vs. the NSA, I very much doubt we are so "surveillance crazy" as you may suggest. While I agree that we definitely should be worried about the potential for abuse by CSEC and the potential lack of oversight by the Canadian government, I'm personally more worried about the fact that the Americans have access to our data and that we, as Canadians, have no right to privacy to our own data as non-Americans. For instance, if you look at www.ixmaps.ca, you can see that traceroutes of URLs destined for Canadian addresses from within Canada are still routed through the United States. Which potentially means that our own traffic is being monitored by the NSA since they are routed and bounced through the US before returning back into the country. I find this notion rather appalling that visiting a Canadian government website would require a request to an American server instead of going directly to the Canadian destination. This level of intrusion into the Canadian system is more shocking and should be looked as opposed to trying to think our own government system is somehow a parallel of what the Americans are doing. TLDR; I'm more worried about Americans (i.e. the NSA) invading our privacy where we have no rights, as opposed to a Canadian agency violating them when we have courts to fight for our rights. Yes, it would be horrible if the government/justice system was in bed with CSEC, but if the Americans are ultimately in control of our system, I'm very much more afraid of that than our own government.
- vy8vWJlco 13y ago
  I agree that the probability of Canadian communication getting swept up in the NSA net is high, but I don't think I can agree with your portrayal of the government of Canada's interest in surveillance as low. First, the article says: "And where Washington has demonstrated its commitment to the NSA with the construction in Utah of an immense $2-billion base said to be capable of processing a zettabyte of data, the Canadian government is building CSEC a gleaming new $900-million, 72,000-square-metre compound in Ottawa" - that's $900 million/35 million citizens, or more than $25 per person. The US figure is $2 billion/319 million, or approximately $6 per person. That's 4 times the money per capita at the current exchange rate. Second, just months before the PRISM controversy the US government began considering requiring interception capabilities for service providers ( https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/caleatwo https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/caleatwo ), among other requirements... Sadly, Canada beat them to the punch. We (our government) tried to push something similar a year ago (called C-30, which caused quite an uproar) and our government still wants to bypass warrants to snoop with a bill called C-50.
- a-priori 13y ago
  Indeed, you can get a general idea of the relative budgets of the CSEC vs. the NSA by comparing their headquarter buildings: CSEC: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Tilley_Building.JPG http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Tilley_Bu... NSA: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/National_Security_Agency_headquarters%2C_Fort_Meade%2C_Maryland.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/National_... Indeed, the CSEC building actually looks much better in that picture than in real life. I see it every day because it's on my commute, and it's actually quite run-down. Mind you, as you said, you can do a lot of damage even with a small amount of money. I also completely agree that Canadians should be deeply concerned about how much of our communications fall under American jurisdiction simply because of the architecture and governance of the Internet. The NSA is well within its rights, without warrants of any kind and without consulting any Canadian authorities, to intercept virtually all Internet traffic that Canadians produce. Most of it either goes to the States (because most major sites are hosted there), or goes through the States on its way to somewhere else in the world (even elsewhere in Canada).

by cclogg 13y ago

canistr 13y ago

Given the financial resources of CSEC, DND, and Canada vs. the NSA, I very much doubt we are so "surveillance crazy" as you may suggest. While I agree that we definitely should be worried about the potential for abuse by CSEC and the potential lack of oversight by the Canadian government, I'm personally more worried about the fact that the Americans have access to our data and that we, as Canadians, have no right to privacy to our own data as non-Americans. For instance, if you look at www.ixmaps.ca, you can see that traceroutes of URLs destined for Canadian addresses from within Canada are still routed through the United States. Which potentially means that our own traffic is being monitored by the NSA since they are routed and bounced through the US before returning back into the country. I find this notion rather appalling that visiting a Canadian government website would require a request to an American server instead of going directly to the Canadian destination. This level of intrusion into the Canadian system is more shocking and should be looked as opposed to trying to think our own government system is somehow a parallel of what the Americans are doing. TLDR; I'm more worried about Americans (i.e. the NSA) invading our privacy where we have no rights, as opposed to a Canadian agency violating them when we have courts to fight for our rights. Yes, it would be horrible if the government/justice system was in bed with CSEC, but if the Americans are ultimately in control of our system, I'm very much more afraid of that than our own government.

vy8vWJlco 13y ago
I agree that the probability of Canadian communication getting swept up in the NSA net is high, but I don't think I can agree with your portrayal of the government of Canada's interest in surveillance as low. First, the article says: "And where Washington has demonstrated its commitment to the NSA with the construction in Utah of an immense $2-billion base said to be capable of processing a zettabyte of data, the Canadian government is building CSEC a gleaming new $900-million, 72,000-square-metre compound in Ottawa" - that's $900 million/35 million citizens, or more than $25 per person. The US figure is $2 billion/319 million, or approximately $6 per person. That's 4 times the money per capita at the current exchange rate. Second, just months before the PRISM controversy the US government began considering requiring interception capabilities for service providers ( https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/caleatwo https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/caleatwo ), among other requirements... Sadly, Canada beat them to the punch. We (our government) tried to push something similar a year ago (called C-30, which caused quite an uproar) and our government still wants to bypass warrants to snoop with a bill called C-50.
a-priori 13y ago
Indeed, you can get a general idea of the relative budgets of the CSEC vs. the NSA by comparing their headquarter buildings: CSEC: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Tilley_Building.JPG http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Tilley_Bu... NSA: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/National_Security_Agency_headquarters%2C_Fort_Meade%2C_Maryland.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/National_... Indeed, the CSEC building actually looks much better in that picture than in real life. I see it every day because it's on my commute, and it's actually quite run-down. Mind you, as you said, you can do a lot of damage even with a small amount of money. I also completely agree that Canadians should be deeply concerned about how much of our communications fall under American jurisdiction simply because of the architecture and governance of the Internet. The NSA is well within its rights, without warrants of any kind and without consulting any Canadian authorities, to intercept virtually all Internet traffic that Canadians produce. Most of it either goes to the States (because most major sites are hosted there), or goes through the States on its way to somewhere else in the world (even elsewhere in Canada).