4 ms·

Sony is a big multinational corporation. As is the case with, say, Microsoft, it is not helpful to appreciate its actions as coming from a single entity.

by acc00 13y ago

csense 13y ago
So if I have a particular experience with them, I can't draw any inferences about future interactions from that? Also, Sony itself clearly wishes to be perceived as a single entity, since they proudly display the Sony brand on all their products and marketing. I can follow that people -- and corporations -- change over time, and sometimes problems like this are flukes, rather than part of the fundamental nature. So I'll stay away from them for a decade or two; if they don't make any other really sleazy moves in that time frame, I'll eventually give them another chance if they make something I want to buy.
- pandaman 13y ago
  Had you actually suffered from the Other OS removal? I am asking because everybody complaining about this on the Internet does not even own a PS3 and people who actually had ran Linux did not complain about the update as it did not affect them much. The only issue you'd had if you used PS3 for computation was the fact that the hardware had been discontinued (long time before the update), but then it's been already too expensive for the computing power it provided.
  - csense 13y ago
    > people who actually had ran Linux did not complain about the update I ran Linux on the PS3, and I complained loudly and bitterly about Sony's actions. > Had you actually suffered from the Other OS removal? Yes, I have. I specifically asked the Gamestop clerk for an old model, at a time when both the old (Linux-supporting) and new (non-Linux-supporting) machines were available in stores. I can't speak for sure about a hypothetical alternative reality, but I think it's likely I would have waited a little longer to buy one, if not for the Linux feature -- specifically I was worried that the Linux-supporting older model would become hard to find. So you can say I wouldn't have bought a PS3 but for its Linux capabilities, and the removal of those capabilities rendered the rationale for my investment invalid. > it's been already too expensive for the computing power it provided It's not solely a matter of computing power provided. I thought the Cell's unique architecture was interesting. Also, in those pre-Raspberry-Pi days, the console wasn't a bad price point to get a general-purpose system with networking, USB and Blu-ray (especially if you bought used hardware), that could also do video out to pre-HDMI TV's.
    - pandaman 13y ago
      If you did not care for anything other than running Linux why did you update firmware? It's only needed to play newer games and blu-rays, things you say that did not matter to you. This the essential problem that I see (usually put in ridiculous context like "UASAF used a PS3 cluster and NOW THEY CANNOT!!!!!1!") - if you run Linux you don't care much about the games and even if you do - all the games you already had before the update don't go away. There is no guarantee that new games will ever come again so your ability to run newer games is not a right. If Sony pulled PS3 off the market instead of issuing an update you would not get any games as well. But it's still hard to imagine somebody in need of both Linux and newest games simultaneously. If you are one of such people - you are member of very unique and small group. No company size of Sony is ever going to carter to such a small group.
      - krussell 13y ago
        It's not entirely true that "all the games you already had before the update don't go away". Although you could still play your current games, the multiplayer portions of those games required you to be connected to the PS network, which in turn required the latest firmware upgrade that removed Linux. I stayed on the firmware with Linux and was fine with not being able to play new games but it did kind of suck that I couldn't play multiplayer games I'd already purchased.
        pandaman 13y ago
        This is true, although the MP availability is even less ensured than that of the new games. MP servers are routinely taken down on all platforms. And for the same reason the Other OS had been taken down - not enough people used it to justify the maintenance cost.
      - ewzimm 13y ago
        I am one of those people who needed both Yellow Dog and PSN with games and Netflix. This was far before Wine was hacked to support Netflix. I used my PS3 as my primary desktop for a long time, and liked the ability to reboot for games. I eventually needed it more as a Netflix box, so the desktop got replaced. I haven't bought anything from Sony since. The move was more than just inconvenience. The presence of an OtherOS feature in a major DRM platform was an olive branch. Sony was saying its proprietary system could happily coexist with open systems. By removing this feature, they sent the message that coexistence was impossible. They don't encourage installing non-Sony software on any devices they sell now as far as I know. Maybe we'll find some way to restore the truce, but it has to come from their side. Free software is always open for integration. It's built-in. If Sony decides they can coexist with it again, all will be well.
- tekromancr 13y ago
  Sony isn't just a corporation, they are a zaibatsu. Essentially many companies with a strategic partnership.
- fpgeek 13y ago
  These people come from the Sony Ericsson joint venture. Technically speaking, they weren't part of Sony until February of last year, when Sony bought out Ericsson's stake in the joint venture. Sony Ericsson had a reasonably good relationship with the developer community pre-acquisition (they've been called out by JBQ as a good AOSP citizen and, IIRC, had official boot loader unlocks for retail phones before HTC). At the time, I remember wondering if being acquired by Sony proper would start to move that in the wrong direction, but, if anything, they've gotten better: they open-sourced their sensor HAL, they have official AOSP projects for several devices (including the Xperia S which was the first attempt at a non-Nexus AOSP phone) and now trying to open the SmartWatch. You can feel free to judge these people for the actions of a different department of a company they weren't even part of at the time. I prefer to consider things case-by-case.

Sony is a big multinational corporation. As is the case with, say, Microsoft, it is not helpful to appreciate its actions as coming from a single entity.

by acc00 13y ago

Sony is a big multinational corporation. As is the case with, say, Microsoft, it is not helpful to appreciate its actions as coming from a single entity.

csense 13y ago

So if I have a particular experience with them, I can't draw any inferences about future interactions from that? Also, Sony itself clearly wishes to be perceived as a single entity, since they proudly display the Sony brand on all their products and marketing. I can follow that people -- and corporations -- change over time, and sometimes problems like this are flukes, rather than part of the fundamental nature. So I'll stay away from them for a decade or two; if they don't make any other really sleazy moves in that time frame, I'll eventually give them another chance if they make something I want to buy.

pandaman 13y ago
Had you actually suffered from the Other OS removal? I am asking because everybody complaining about this on the Internet does not even own a PS3 and people who actually had ran Linux did not complain about the update as it did not affect them much. The only issue you'd had if you used PS3 for computation was the fact that the hardware had been discontinued (long time before the update), but then it's been already too expensive for the computing power it provided.
- csense 13y ago
  > people who actually had ran Linux did not complain about the update I ran Linux on the PS3, and I complained loudly and bitterly about Sony's actions. > Had you actually suffered from the Other OS removal? Yes, I have. I specifically asked the Gamestop clerk for an old model, at a time when both the old (Linux-supporting) and new (non-Linux-supporting) machines were available in stores. I can't speak for sure about a hypothetical alternative reality, but I think it's likely I would have waited a little longer to buy one, if not for the Linux feature -- specifically I was worried that the Linux-supporting older model would become hard to find. So you can say I wouldn't have bought a PS3 but for its Linux capabilities, and the removal of those capabilities rendered the rationale for my investment invalid. > it's been already too expensive for the computing power it provided It's not solely a matter of computing power provided. I thought the Cell's unique architecture was interesting. Also, in those pre-Raspberry-Pi days, the console wasn't a bad price point to get a general-purpose system with networking, USB and Blu-ray (especially if you bought used hardware), that could also do video out to pre-HDMI TV's.
  - pandaman 13y ago
    If you did not care for anything other than running Linux why did you update firmware? It's only needed to play newer games and blu-rays, things you say that did not matter to you. This the essential problem that I see (usually put in ridiculous context like "UASAF used a PS3 cluster and NOW THEY CANNOT!!!!!1!") - if you run Linux you don't care much about the games and even if you do - all the games you already had before the update don't go away. There is no guarantee that new games will ever come again so your ability to run newer games is not a right. If Sony pulled PS3 off the market instead of issuing an update you would not get any games as well. But it's still hard to imagine somebody in need of both Linux and newest games simultaneously. If you are one of such people - you are member of very unique and small group. No company size of Sony is ever going to carter to such a small group.
    - krussell 13y ago
      It's not entirely true that "all the games you already had before the update don't go away". Although you could still play your current games, the multiplayer portions of those games required you to be connected to the PS network, which in turn required the latest firmware upgrade that removed Linux. I stayed on the firmware with Linux and was fine with not being able to play new games but it did kind of suck that I couldn't play multiplayer games I'd already purchased.
      - pandaman 13y ago
        This is true, although the MP availability is even less ensured than that of the new games. MP servers are routinely taken down on all platforms. And for the same reason the Other OS had been taken down - not enough people used it to justify the maintenance cost.
    - ewzimm 13y ago
      I am one of those people who needed both Yellow Dog and PSN with games and Netflix. This was far before Wine was hacked to support Netflix. I used my PS3 as my primary desktop for a long time, and liked the ability to reboot for games. I eventually needed it more as a Netflix box, so the desktop got replaced. I haven't bought anything from Sony since. The move was more than just inconvenience. The presence of an OtherOS feature in a major DRM platform was an olive branch. Sony was saying its proprietary system could happily coexist with open systems. By removing this feature, they sent the message that coexistence was impossible. They don't encourage installing non-Sony software on any devices they sell now as far as I know. Maybe we'll find some way to restore the truce, but it has to come from their side. Free software is always open for integration. It's built-in. If Sony decides they can coexist with it again, all will be well.
tekromancr 13y ago
Sony isn't just a corporation, they are a zaibatsu. Essentially many companies with a strategic partnership.
fpgeek 13y ago
These people come from the Sony Ericsson joint venture. Technically speaking, they weren't part of Sony until February of last year, when Sony bought out Ericsson's stake in the joint venture. Sony Ericsson had a reasonably good relationship with the developer community pre-acquisition (they've been called out by JBQ as a good AOSP citizen and, IIRC, had official boot loader unlocks for retail phones before HTC). At the time, I remember wondering if being acquired by Sony proper would start to move that in the wrong direction, but, if anything, they've gotten better: they open-sourced their sensor HAL, they have official AOSP projects for several devices (including the Xperia S which was the first attempt at a non-Nexus AOSP phone) and now trying to open the SmartWatch. You can feel free to judge these people for the actions of a different department of a company they weren't even part of at the time. I prefer to consider things case-by-case.