6 ms·

I agree. This is the weirdest part of this whole thing. Surely there are a dozen countries less inclined to want to extradite Snowden to the U.S. for the grou

by sramsay 13y ago

I agree. This is the weirdest part of this whole thing. Surely there are a dozen countries less inclined to want to extradite Snowden to the U.S. for the grounds stated. Why not flee to a country that is a weak (but not too weak) ally of the U.S., thoroughly outraged by the PRISM program, and which doesn't have an extradition treaty that could possibly be construed as permitting extradition under the stated terms (as Hong Kong arguably does with the U.S.). I'm not try to defend Wolf. Just sayin' . . .

at-fates-hands 13y ago
I actually thought the weirdest thing - how was a guy who was a high school dropout get a gig at the NSA? Even small businesses won't hire someone unless they have a four year degree. I know its possible for developers to get a job based on being self taught. I highly, highly, doubt a government agency like the NSA would hire someone with such sketchy credentials. My other real concern was brought up in the article. Once you're about to feel the full brunt of the United States Government coming after you, it's usually standard procedure to lawyer up. Considering this guy hasn't done so indicates he's not scared of whatever bad guys are coming after him. Which means, either he's really stupid, or he has no reason to be afraid.
- sramsay 13y ago
  "I highly, highly, doubt a government agency like the NSA would hire someone with such sketchy credentials." Absolutely. It's boilerplate on job descriptions for Federal jobs of any consequence. You can't answer the phones without having a four-year degree.
- cboppert 13y ago
  I think there is a lack of willing and talented people who can pass these security examinations. I was contacted by a contractor for the government requiring top secret security clearance (10 years back + polygraph). When you start its 7 years back but without the polygraph. Then as things get rolling they send agents to your family and friends to ask questions about your integrity, honesty, and values. And there's the polygraph. It's no joke. But not only that, this guy who was talking to me said they were affected by the sequester. I think before the sequester, these contractors were rolling in dough, hiring as many people as they could to do more and get more going on. In 2011, there were 4.2 million people with security clearances. Over 2,000,000 of those people were government employees with secret/confidential security clearance. Another 541,000 government contractors had that access. Finally, 666,000 government employees and 524,000 government contractors held top secret security clearance. Source:http://news.clearancejobs.com/2011/09/26/how-many-people-have-security-clearances/ http://news.clearancejobs.com/2011/09/26/how-many-people-hav... Now, he's been hired for a while from what I understand. But despite that, I think the security complex is pretty much open for business and ready to hire. Imagine how many more there are 2 years later?
- genwin 13y ago
  Why lawyer up when you believe the outcome will be the same regardless? No lawyer can change the outcome. Better that he live it up until the inevitable happens.
- SkyMarshal 13y ago
  As discussed in another thread recently, the CIA hired him first and they are willing to take anyone who appears trustworthy. Eg, they'll take someone like Snowden who is not well traveled or educated and apparently patriotic, over an expert linguist who has lived in foreign countries a number of years and may have conflicting loyalties. Disclaimer: I don't know this for sure, just repeating one explanation given in another recent thread about this. >Considering this guy hasn't done so indicates he's not scared of whatever bad guys are coming after him. Which means, either he's really stupid, or he has no reason to be afraid. He's been working with ex-Constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald since January. He is very well advised, and I'm sure he'll lawyer up if he ever finds himself back in the US.
- GHFigs 13y ago
  how was a guy who was a high school dropout get a gig at the NSA? He enlisted in the Army and got a security clearance, which is the credential that's really crucial for CIA/NSA/contractor jobs. The Army is willing to accept a GED, which you can get in an afternoon.
  - at-fates-hands 13y ago
    This is actually counter to what I've been told by several high ranking friends I know in the military. I have a family member who is a full bird Marine Colonel and he said they won't take GED candidates anymore. I also have a good friend who's a Senior Master Sergeant in the Air Force and said the same thing. Here's an article from 2009: http://www.nodropouts.org/blog/bad-economy-bad-news-dropouts-who-hoped-join-army http://www.nodropouts.org/blog/bad-economy-bad-news-dropouts... "Army recruiters now tell potential recruits that their chances of getting into the service are not good if they don't have a high school diploma. And even a GED won't cut it in most cases." I did notice the "in most cases" language, so maybe he got in on a pass from someone?
    - GHFigs 13y ago
      I did notice the "in most cases" language, so maybe he got in on a pass from someone? Yes, that's what I mean by "willing to accept". If a person's ASVAB scores are high and they're not a total mess, they can get a waiver for many things. It varies by service, of course; I'm not surprised that the Marines and Air Force don't waiver GEDs.
tsjackson 13y ago
Leave it to a #slatepitch to explain why Snowden would choose Hong Kong: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/10/hong_kong_asylum_law_could_a_bureaucratic_hurdle_keep_nsa_leaker_edward.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/10/hong_kong_... To expand on this scenario: Snowden knows that the bureaucratic wrangling to get him out of Hong Kong by the book would be significant. He assumes he'll get at least several months of effective asylum in Hong Kong while having easy access to high speed internet, professional filmmakers, etc., all of which are crucial for waging an international public relations campaign. Meanwhile, he's geographically adjacent to China, home of the only government in a strong enough global position to openly vie for him to release state secrets in exchange for protection. This puts the U.S. gov't into a difficult position: they can extract/assassinate him illegally, which of course is a public relations nightmare. They can wait six months to extract him legally, and take the chance that he'll make a deal with China (or be illegally extracted by the Chinese). Or they can look the other way while he pursues another option - asylum in a country like Ecuador for instance. That last option is his only real hope. Basically, that he's able to put enough pressure on the U.S. gov't through public relations and international positioning that they don't pursue backdoor sanctions against a country granting asylum.

by sramsay 13y ago

at-fates-hands 13y ago

I actually thought the weirdest thing - how was a guy who was a high school dropout get a gig at the NSA? Even small businesses won't hire someone unless they have a four year degree. I know its possible for developers to get a job based on being self taught. I highly, highly, doubt a government agency like the NSA would hire someone with such sketchy credentials. My other real concern was brought up in the article. Once you're about to feel the full brunt of the United States Government coming after you, it's usually standard procedure to lawyer up. Considering this guy hasn't done so indicates he's not scared of whatever bad guys are coming after him. Which means, either he's really stupid, or he has no reason to be afraid.

sramsay 13y ago
"I highly, highly, doubt a government agency like the NSA would hire someone with such sketchy credentials." Absolutely. It's boilerplate on job descriptions for Federal jobs of any consequence. You can't answer the phones without having a four-year degree.
cboppert 13y ago
I think there is a lack of willing and talented people who can pass these security examinations. I was contacted by a contractor for the government requiring top secret security clearance (10 years back + polygraph). When you start its 7 years back but without the polygraph. Then as things get rolling they send agents to your family and friends to ask questions about your integrity, honesty, and values. And there's the polygraph. It's no joke. But not only that, this guy who was talking to me said they were affected by the sequester. I think before the sequester, these contractors were rolling in dough, hiring as many people as they could to do more and get more going on. In 2011, there were 4.2 million people with security clearances. Over 2,000,000 of those people were government employees with secret/confidential security clearance. Another 541,000 government contractors had that access. Finally, 666,000 government employees and 524,000 government contractors held top secret security clearance. Source:http://news.clearancejobs.com/2011/09/26/how-many-people-have-security-clearances/ http://news.clearancejobs.com/2011/09/26/how-many-people-hav... Now, he's been hired for a while from what I understand. But despite that, I think the security complex is pretty much open for business and ready to hire. Imagine how many more there are 2 years later?
genwin 13y ago
Why lawyer up when you believe the outcome will be the same regardless? No lawyer can change the outcome. Better that he live it up until the inevitable happens.
SkyMarshal 13y ago
As discussed in another thread recently, the CIA hired him first and they are willing to take anyone who appears trustworthy. Eg, they'll take someone like Snowden who is not well traveled or educated and apparently patriotic, over an expert linguist who has lived in foreign countries a number of years and may have conflicting loyalties. Disclaimer: I don't know this for sure, just repeating one explanation given in another recent thread about this. >Considering this guy hasn't done so indicates he's not scared of whatever bad guys are coming after him. Which means, either he's really stupid, or he has no reason to be afraid. He's been working with ex-Constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald since January. He is very well advised, and I'm sure he'll lawyer up if he ever finds himself back in the US.
GHFigs 13y ago
how was a guy who was a high school dropout get a gig at the NSA? He enlisted in the Army and got a security clearance, which is the credential that's really crucial for CIA/NSA/contractor jobs. The Army is willing to accept a GED, which you can get in an afternoon.
- at-fates-hands 13y ago
  This is actually counter to what I've been told by several high ranking friends I know in the military. I have a family member who is a full bird Marine Colonel and he said they won't take GED candidates anymore. I also have a good friend who's a Senior Master Sergeant in the Air Force and said the same thing. Here's an article from 2009: http://www.nodropouts.org/blog/bad-economy-bad-news-dropouts-who-hoped-join-army http://www.nodropouts.org/blog/bad-economy-bad-news-dropouts... "Army recruiters now tell potential recruits that their chances of getting into the service are not good if they don't have a high school diploma. And even a GED won't cut it in most cases." I did notice the "in most cases" language, so maybe he got in on a pass from someone?
  - GHFigs 13y ago
    I did notice the "in most cases" language, so maybe he got in on a pass from someone? Yes, that's what I mean by "willing to accept". If a person's ASVAB scores are high and they're not a total mess, they can get a waiver for many things. It varies by service, of course; I'm not surprised that the Marines and Air Force don't waiver GEDs.

tsjackson 13y ago

Leave it to a #slatepitch to explain why Snowden would choose Hong Kong: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/10/hong_kong_asylum_law_could_a_bureaucratic_hurdle_keep_nsa_leaker_edward.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/10/hong_kong_... To expand on this scenario: Snowden knows that the bureaucratic wrangling to get him out of Hong Kong by the book would be significant. He assumes he'll get at least several months of effective asylum in Hong Kong while having easy access to high speed internet, professional filmmakers, etc., all of which are crucial for waging an international public relations campaign. Meanwhile, he's geographically adjacent to China, home of the only government in a strong enough global position to openly vie for him to release state secrets in exchange for protection. This puts the U.S. gov't into a difficult position: they can extract/assassinate him illegally, which of course is a public relations nightmare. They can wait six months to extract him legally, and take the chance that he'll make a deal with China (or be illegally extracted by the Chinese). Or they can look the other way while he pursues another option - asylum in a country like Ecuador for instance. That last option is his only real hope. Basically, that he's able to put enough pressure on the U.S. gov't through public relations and international positioning that they don't pursue backdoor sanctions against a country granting asylum.