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This is going to sound dickish, but technically it's "the NSA," not just "NSA". "National Security Administration doesn't need Microsoft to break into computer
by kunai 13y ago
This is going to sound dickish, but technically it's "the NSA," not just "NSA".
"National Security Administration doesn't need Microsoft to break into computers." vs "The National Security Administration doesn't need Microsoft to break into computers."
Too much of a tangent, perhaps?
- tptacek 13y agoDoesn't sound dickish. You're probably right. Force of habit.
- adoyle 13y agoNational Security Agency, not Administration ;)
- dfc 13y agoTangent or not I'm interested. I think its less settled than you think. In fact I was always on the opposite team; its "NSA/DoD/DoE did x" just like it is "IBM did x" and not "the IBM did x." I did enough research to conclude that it was not a settled issue. Its clear that if the initials were lower case and referred to a generic agency that deals with national security it would be "the national security agency" similar to the "the fishing tackle section of a sporting goods store." On the other hand a gander at DoD's style guide[1] makes it clear that they do not like the "the." I'd love to see why you think its opposite. That's not dickish, that's a desire to answer a question that's been nagging me for a long time. [1] http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/writing/Writing_Style_Guide.pdf http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/writing/Writing_St... From the english.SX: "Is it proper to use “the” before the name of a government organization?" http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/76976/is-it-proper-to-use-the-before-the-name-of-a-government-organization http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/76976/is-it-prope... "Using the definite article with acronyms and initialisms" http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30596/using-the-definite-article-with-acronyms-and-initialisms http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30596/using-the-d... "Definite article with proper nouns, titles followed by a common noun" http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/2327/definite-article-with-proper-nouns-titles-followed-by-a-common-noun http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/2327/definite-art... "The definite article usage with objects that have names" http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/16988/the-definite-article-usage-with-objects-that-have-names http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/16988/the-definit... "Capitalising the definite article in names" http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/84288/capitalising-the-definite-article-in-names http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/84288/capitalisin...
- hga 13y agoMaybe it is clearer if we note this as proper usage: "the IBM corporation." Similarly, "the Department of Defense", "the National Security Agency".
- dfc 13y agoFrankly that does not make it any clearer to me. Which could be because I am bad at the nitty gritty of english syntax. But most importantly, with all due respect you are not Strunk and White. I am looking to a clear definitive reference and in the future I cant say "I know it is written this way because hga said so."
- hga 13y agoWell, you can start here for a well referenced treatment of these nouns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_noun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_noun
- dfc 13y agoThe reason your comment did little to clear things up is because it relied on spelling the agencies/organizations names out. It is clear that the rules change for acronyms and abbreviations.
- rdl 13y agoDoD vs. DOD is a big enough debate :)
- silentOpen 13y agoI believe NSA refers to themselves without the article when the organization's name is abbreviated.
- ErsatzVerkehr 13y agoNot true. It's a proper noun, like "McDonald's". It just happens to also sound like a descriptive phrase. You'll find that, inside the agency, it is just "NSA" and not "the NSA". This is true for most "three letter agencies". Don't believe it? See what the agency calls itself on its website: http://www.nsa.gov/ http://www.nsa.gov/