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By why do all these pseudo-lefty celebs (Wolf, Maher, etc.) make it a point to smear Snowden? They seem to be doing it of their own volition.

by nsns 13y ago

chipotle_coyote 13y ago
There's two kinds of conspiracy theories, I think. There's the ones that actually exist and end up getting exposed in a few years: the Pentagon Papers, the Iran-Contra scandal, the trumping up of "Iraq has WMD," and (apparently) now PRISM. Then there are the theories like "9/11 was an inside job" and "JFK was killed by the CIA," ones that would require an order of magnitude more people to do things an order of magnitude more reprehensible and keep perfectly quiet for many, many more years, yet make slip-ups that only amateur sleuths can find (or at least dare to report on) -- all for claimed ends which are, to say the least, dubious. There are common psychological threads to these theories (the Illuminati run the world, but we know the truth and that gives us some power back), but the most fascinating thing about them is that you literally can't disprove them: they're not making falsifiable claims. Scant or contradictory evidence just shows how successful the conspirators have been; lack of mainstream reporting just shows how the media is part of it. The thing is (to get back to your actual musing), once you get into that mindset, it's turtles all the way down. It's not really a left/right thing, it's a "fringe" thing -- I suspect the more you feel that your voice is shut out of the mainstream discussion, the more likely you are to suspect it's because the Powers That Be don't want to hear your voice. You may be right, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's because they can't face the holy light of your truth. Even if she hasn't gone full Alex Jones, Naomi Wolf has often seemed to me to be flirting with that kind of conspiracy mindset. I can't speak to Maher (I can't find any comments he's made on Snowden), but he seems to have a different set of biases, not as much conspiracy-based as a kind of reflexive skepticism.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  re:9/11, the official story is basically that building 7 collapsed because of burning office furniture. You believe that? "once you get into that mindset, it's turtles all the way down", huh? But sure, why even bother to actually investigate the catastrophy such huge changes are based on, when you can just ship off the debris and constantly talk about living in a "post 9/11 world"... those conspiracy theorists would ignore and and all investigations or scientific facts anyway, for circular reasons°. So let's not have any of those, it will help. Instead let's have presidents pose on coffins wrapped in flags, shuffling our feet in moments of silence as decent citizens would. ° They're on the fringe for reasons that don't interest, not really, because they're on the fringe. Where they are because that's where they are. Not that you or anyone knows this, but this topic "fascinates" you so much that you "suspect" it. That's either hardcore trolling or awkward irony, you decide.

By why do all these pseudo-lefty celebs (Wolf, Maher, etc.) make it a point to smear Snowden? They seem to be doing it of their own volition.

by nsns 13y ago

By why do all these pseudo-lefty celebs (Wolf, Maher, etc.) make it a point to smear Snowden? They seem to be doing it of their own volition.

chipotle_coyote 13y ago

There's two kinds of conspiracy theories, I think. There's the ones that actually exist and end up getting exposed in a few years: the Pentagon Papers, the Iran-Contra scandal, the trumping up of "Iraq has WMD," and (apparently) now PRISM. Then there are the theories like "9/11 was an inside job" and "JFK was killed by the CIA," ones that would require an order of magnitude more people to do things an order of magnitude more reprehensible and keep perfectly quiet for many, many more years, yet make slip-ups that only amateur sleuths can find (or at least dare to report on) -- all for claimed ends which are, to say the least, dubious. There are common psychological threads to these theories (the Illuminati run the world, but we know the truth and that gives us some power back), but the most fascinating thing about them is that you literally can't disprove them: they're not making falsifiable claims. Scant or contradictory evidence just shows how successful the conspirators have been; lack of mainstream reporting just shows how the media is part of it. The thing is (to get back to your actual musing), once you get into that mindset, it's turtles all the way down. It's not really a left/right thing, it's a "fringe" thing -- I suspect the more you feel that your voice is shut out of the mainstream discussion, the more likely you are to suspect it's because the Powers That Be don't want to hear your voice. You may be right, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's because they can't face the holy light of your truth. Even if she hasn't gone full Alex Jones, Naomi Wolf has often seemed to me to be flirting with that kind of conspiracy mindset. I can't speak to Maher (I can't find any comments he's made on Snowden), but he seems to have a different set of biases, not as much conspiracy-based as a kind of reflexive skepticism.

PavlovsCat 13y ago
re:9/11, the official story is basically that building 7 collapsed because of burning office furniture. You believe that? "once you get into that mindset, it's turtles all the way down", huh? But sure, why even bother to actually investigate the catastrophy such huge changes are based on, when you can just ship off the debris and constantly talk about living in a "post 9/11 world"... those conspiracy theorists would ignore and and all investigations or scientific facts anyway, for circular reasons°. So let's not have any of those, it will help. Instead let's have presidents pose on coffins wrapped in flags, shuffling our feet in moments of silence as decent citizens would. ° They're on the fringe for reasons that don't interest, not really, because they're on the fringe. Where they are because that's where they are. Not that you or anyone knows this, but this topic "fascinates" you so much that you "suspect" it. That's either hardcore trolling or awkward irony, you decide.