4 ms·

<marshray> cited a CNET article I wrote this week as a threat to "put them on trial." As the author, I disagree. If FB received a FISA Sec. 702 order for the c

by declan 13y ago

<marshray> cited a CNET article I wrote this week as a threat to "put them on trial." As the author, I disagree. If FB received a FISA Sec. 702 order for the contents of nycterrorcell@facebook.com's account, and they disclosed that, that would presumably violate a court order and they would find themselves in contempt of court. For good reason: when there is an actual terrorist investigation (remember the terrorist threat is overhyped and you're more likely to get struck by lighting), you don't want to tip off the bad guys. But aside from that very narrow non-disclosure exception, there is no threat to "put them on trial."

marshray 13y ago
And if you refuse or actively obstruct the court order? (I was mainly citing your article to establish the the gag order. First hit for https://duckduckgo.com/?q=facebook+gag+nsa https://duckduckgo.com/?q=facebook+gag+nsa )
- declan 13y ago
  Ah, thanks. Didn't know it was the first hit. If you, the recipient, want to challenge the order as invalid, you're free to do so, and there's an appeal process. I was the first to disclose two weeks ago that Google is fighting two national security orders in two different federal courts (SF and NYC). There have been other similar cases. A facial challenge to FISAA 702 (by Amnesty, not the provider) went all the way to the Supreme Court. You really need to read the applicable laws. My articles link to them. Otherwise it's like talking about the details of mobile app development without knowing how to program.
  - marshray 13y ago
    One can't read the applicable laws, they may not have been written yet. Executives who cooperate get retroactive immunity. Those who don't go to jail for stock transactions while knowing secrets they can't legally share. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119240248793758652.html http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://... (Note I'm not pretending to be a journalist here, just wearing my conspiracy hat today)
- mpyne 13y ago
  There is no trial for contempt of court. The judge can throw you in the slammer for disobeying a lawful order issued under valid authority of the Court. Sounds kind of tyrannical to me, but what do I know?
  - coreyja 13y ago
    The judge can "throw you in the slammer" for Direct Contempt of Court. This is when you are physically in the court room or in front of the presiding judge and do/say something that "disturbs the court." However not complying with a court order is Indirect Contempt of Court and the defendant has the right to a hearing in this case. So disobeying a court order is contempt of court, but a judge can't throw you in jail without a hearing for it. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_court#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_court#United_States

by declan 13y ago

marshray 13y ago

And if you refuse or actively obstruct the court order? (I was mainly citing your article to establish the the gag order. First hit for https://duckduckgo.com/?q=facebook+gag+nsa https://duckduckgo.com/?q=facebook+gag+nsa )

declan 13y ago
Ah, thanks. Didn't know it was the first hit. If you, the recipient, want to challenge the order as invalid, you're free to do so, and there's an appeal process. I was the first to disclose two weeks ago that Google is fighting two national security orders in two different federal courts (SF and NYC). There have been other similar cases. A facial challenge to FISAA 702 (by Amnesty, not the provider) went all the way to the Supreme Court. You really need to read the applicable laws. My articles link to them. Otherwise it's like talking about the details of mobile app development without knowing how to program.
- marshray 13y ago
  One can't read the applicable laws, they may not have been written yet. Executives who cooperate get retroactive immunity. Those who don't go to jail for stock transactions while knowing secrets they can't legally share. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119240248793758652.html http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://... (Note I'm not pretending to be a journalist here, just wearing my conspiracy hat today)
mpyne 13y ago
There is no trial for contempt of court. The judge can throw you in the slammer for disobeying a lawful order issued under valid authority of the Court. Sounds kind of tyrannical to me, but what do I know?
- coreyja 13y ago
  The judge can "throw you in the slammer" for Direct Contempt of Court. This is when you are physically in the court room or in front of the presiding judge and do/say something that "disturbs the court." However not complying with a court order is Indirect Contempt of Court and the defendant has the right to a hearing in this case. So disobeying a court order is contempt of court, but a judge can't throw you in jail without a hearing for it. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_court#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_court#United_States