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One of the implications of PRISM is this: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrc.nl%2Fjoris%2F201

• mrschwabe 13y ago
  Exactly. This is the kind of thing that completely undermines the free market. And particularly detrimental to our economy, is not only PRISM - but any secret deal carried out between a corporation & a government agency. Google has had secret deals with the NSA for years [1] the scope of this relationship is now being revealed, but I'd also love to know if and exactly how much money has been transacted between these two 'partners'. Even if it's $1 that transaction signifies Google's participation in undermining the free market. Because how do we know that the NSA isn't funneling money to Google? If the deals are secret, we have to assume the worst. Best case scenario there is no money changing hands. Worst case scenario, Google is being funded by the NSA to A) carry out tactics & strategies on behalf of the NSA and B) to gain market-share and competitive advantage so these operations can perpetuate. Highly immoral, deceptive, and completely unfair to any business, startup entrepreneur, or hacker trying to make a living in this industry. [1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/217550/google_watchdog_white_house.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/217550/google_watchdog_white_...
  • jholman 13y ago
    Secret deals with the NSA? First of all, bullshit. Second, that link claims nothing of the kind. Do you even read? The link claims that a group called Consumer Watchdog made those claims, and then goes on to describe a pattern of partisan attack by that group, preferentially against Google, including wild and implausible allegations. Again, the majority of the column-space at PC World is casting doubt on these allegations. Maybe you're an NSA agent, mrschwabe, raking muck on innocents to cover up your tracks. Can you prove that you aren't? How much money have they paid you? Way to undermine the free market, you commie nazi! Best case, there's no money changing hands, and you're a liar because you think it's funny. Worst case, you're a traitor. (Note: in case you got hit by Poe's Law, this paragraph is satire of your laughable reasoning, not an actual accusation.) If Google were in bed with the NSA, they wouldn't be leading the charge against NSL gag orders, by successfully campaigning the feds to let them publish approximate numbers. (Credit where it's due, Calyx Internet is the bravest corporate foe of NSLs that I know of. But after Calyx, I know of no company as active as Google in resisting over-surveillance and fighting for privacy.) (Also, note that NSLs, despite the name, are more-associated with the FBI than the NSA, but my point still holds, because it's fedgov surveillance.) And Google's just-this-week petition to increase transparency over FISA surveillance is also not consistent with favouring the NSA. More broadly, Google has been trying to draw attention to this for years, but obviously cautiously, because it's too easy for irrational crackpots to make the claims you made. We don't know for sure that Google isn't doing horrible things. But all of the public evidence is 100% consistent with Google being active protectors of the public against the government, and it is... less consistent, with the opposite.
    • Yaa101 13y ago
      Your language and name calling stands out, it looks like an authorian in damage control mode trying to influence the more dumb demography into distrusting critique against FISA and the US government. I suggest you better try that in a different place where that dumber demography reads.
      • jholman 13y ago
        I strongly recommend that everyone be highly critical of FISA. The US government at large is a more complicated subject, but criticism there is also a great idea. I think it's obvious in my comment that I admire resistance against FISA and NSLs. I believe that Google has conducted such resistence (though I may have been deceived), and insofar as that is true, I admire Google for doing so (and I admire Calyx for doing so). This should be plainly obvious from my comment. Given that, the fact that you claim I'm trying to trick people into not critiquing FISA and the US govt, I can only conclude that you didn't actually read my comment. With allies like you, who needs a malicious government. Regarding name-calling, perhaps that's a fair point. But I think not. I asked if Mr Schwabe actually read the article he keeps citing (since it's inconsistent with his claim about it), and I think that's legitimate. And I called his reasoning laughable, but his reasoning IS laughable; he thinks the best case is the null case, which is crazy, because there are lots of better possibilities imaginable, like the possibility that Google is championing user rights and winning (maybe that's wishful thinking, but it IS a possibility).
      • mrschwabe 13y ago
        Kudos friend. I share your sentiment. Regardless of jholman's allegiance - you elude to an important point that should be understood by anyone reading HN. There are people on the payroll of military contractors actively engaged in discussions online via fake accounts on all the major social networks. "Operation Earnest Voice" is has reportedly a budget of $200m. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-oper... A lot of the discussions on HN these days really do look suspect.
        • 13y ago