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Watergate was about a group of powerful political elites targeting a rival group of powerful political elites. The present IRS scandal is about powerful politi

by jalanco 13y ago

Watergate was about a group of powerful political elites targeting a rival group of powerful political elites. The present IRS scandal is about powerful political elites targeting nearly powerless regular citizens who were trying to organize, and in many cases prevented, or very significantly delayed, from doing so. So yeah, the IRS scandal is worse than Watergate.

shardling 13y ago
1. The IRS thing is completely separate from the NSA stuff, and the comment I responded to was discussing the NSA. 2. The IRS stuff is also way more complicated than it seems. They're supposed to target political organizations, because they don't qualify for the tax-exempt status. And there was really only one large political movement forming new organizations in that time frame. I haven't seen any actual ( as opposed to speculative) connection to the "political elites" yet. Everything I've read points to institutional laziness rather than a politically instigated targeting. Now, I'm not saying these things shouldn't be investigated! But claiming that they should currently be as big a scandal as Watergate doesn't sit right with me. It diminishes just how fucked up Watergate was.
- protomyth 13y ago
  "They're supposed to target political organizations, because they don't qualify for the tax-exempt status." This is untrue given that the former Obama campaign organization converted (and was approved) to change to a 501(c)4 and has the mission of advocating his 2nd term agenda. This was political targeting just like what FDR did many years ago. Who actually approved it is the question.
  - shardling 13y ago
    By "political" I really meant "involved in elections". (Which the organization you mention no longer is.) Sorry, sloppy language on my part.
    - protomyth 13y ago
      The actual rule is http://www.irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-004.html#d0e332 http://www.irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-004.html#d0e332
redler 13y ago
The "nearly powerless regular citizens" in question are, for the most part, political groups looking to use a tax loophole to gather and funnel institutional money to their causes. Not only weren't they "in many cases prevented" -- they were all approved, and able to proceed with their political activities flouting the letter and intent of a law designed to encourage "social welfare". [Edit: clarity]
AmericanOP 13y ago
There is no "they." There was no targeting as described. Fox news fantasy. http://news.yahoo.com/conservative-republican-irs-staffer-takes-credit-tea-party-150337890.html http://news.yahoo.com/conservative-republican-irs-staffer-ta... http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/why-irs-abruptly-apologized-tea-party/65136/ http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/why-irs-abru... http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/treasury-report-irs-owes-apologies-more-just-tea-party-groups/65233/ http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/treasury-rep... http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/irs-tea-party-campaign-finance/65180/ http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/irs-tea-part...

by jalanco 13y ago

shardling 13y ago

1. The IRS thing is completely separate from the NSA stuff, and the comment I responded to was discussing the NSA. 2. The IRS stuff is also way more complicated than it seems. They're supposed to target political organizations, because they don't qualify for the tax-exempt status. And there was really only one large political movement forming new organizations in that time frame. I haven't seen any actual ( as opposed to speculative) connection to the "political elites" yet. Everything I've read points to institutional laziness rather than a politically instigated targeting. Now, I'm not saying these things shouldn't be investigated! But claiming that they should currently be as big a scandal as Watergate doesn't sit right with me. It diminishes just how fucked up Watergate was.

protomyth 13y ago
"They're supposed to target political organizations, because they don't qualify for the tax-exempt status." This is untrue given that the former Obama campaign organization converted (and was approved) to change to a 501(c)4 and has the mission of advocating his 2nd term agenda. This was political targeting just like what FDR did many years ago. Who actually approved it is the question.
- shardling 13y ago
  By "political" I really meant "involved in elections". (Which the organization you mention no longer is.) Sorry, sloppy language on my part.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    The actual rule is http://www.irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-004.html#d0e332 http://www.irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-004.html#d0e332

redler 13y ago

The "nearly powerless regular citizens" in question are, for the most part, political groups looking to use a tax loophole to gather and funnel institutional money to their causes. Not only weren't they "in many cases prevented" -- they were all approved, and able to proceed with their political activities flouting the letter and intent of a law designed to encourage "social welfare". [Edit: clarity]

AmericanOP 13y ago

There is no "they." There was no targeting as described. Fox news fantasy. http://news.yahoo.com/conservative-republican-irs-staffer-takes-credit-tea-party-150337890.html http://news.yahoo.com/conservative-republican-irs-staffer-ta... http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/why-irs-abruptly-apologized-tea-party/65136/ http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/why-irs-abru... http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/treasury-report-irs-owes-apologies-more-just-tea-party-groups/65233/ http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/treasury-rep... http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/irs-tea-party-campaign-finance/65180/ http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/irs-tea-part...