5 ms·

>Could you elaborate on that a little more? The Libertarian movement is an extreme right wing movement. They're correct with their international policy, and I

>Could you elaborate on that a little more? The Libertarian movement is an extreme right wing movement. They're correct with their international policy, and I agree with them on their stance on e.g. abortion and gay marriage (i.e. get rid of the religious concept of "marriage" in government). But they also have a lot of dangerous right wing stuff like massive deregulation, gold standard, etc. Having said that, I've voted Paul pretty much every time I had the chance because while I think his right wing stuff is dangerous and crazy, I don't think that stuff would get through. If we had actual representative government (i.e. the party make up of congress really reflected closely with the populations ideals instead of the red/blue setup we have now) it would work fine because we could get through all those things that your party and my party agree on.

mindcrime 13y ago
The Libertarian movement is an extreme right wing movement. Everybody seems to think that, but I don't believe it to be the case. A better statement is that "Libertarians are right of Right and left of Left". So depending on your existing world-view, you would probably see the Libertarians as either radically Leftist or radically Rightist, and - in either case - you'd be partially correct and partially wrong. For example, Libertarians align with the left, and would go further than the standard American Left on many social issues: Abortion - Libertarians tend to be pro-choice and the LP platform specifically says that the State should not be involved in making those decisions. Drug laws - a typical American "Leftist" position might be "legalize marijuana". A Libertarian position would be more like "The State has no authority whatsoever to regulate what you put into your own body. End ALL drug laws". Death Penalty - Libertarians are generally opposed to the death penalty. Gay marriage / minority rights - Libertarians believe the Govt. should have no say in marriage at all, which implies that homosexual couples should be able to marry if they want. Of course, it also implies that others should be free to choose not to recognize that marriage, but hey... that's the price of freedom: You want to be free, you can't compel other people to behave the way you want them to. OTOH, yes, Libertarians tend to be more closely aligned with "the Right" on economic issues: taxation, trade, business regulation, etc. But I don't think it's fair to call the Libertarian movement "an extreme right wing movement". If for no other reason, because a simple "left / right" dichotomy is not a valid model for representing political orientation.
- javert 13y ago
  > But I don't think it's fair to call the Libertarian movement "an extreme right wing movement". A good response to people who say that is to point out that there is nothing wrong with being "extreme." That word is just being used as an emotional smear tactic. "Extreme" basically means the same thing as "pure" or "principled," which are both potentially good things. (Ayn Rand has an essay that points all this out, it's not my idea.) The guy may have a legitimate (to his view) objection, but it's that libertarians are extreme right, not extreme right. (Or, extreme anti-progressive if you want to reject the left-right terminology, which I pretty much agree with you on).
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - bobwaycott 13y ago
    First, "extreme" does not--basically or otherwise--mean the same thing as "pure" or "principled". Not generally, and not specifically in this context. That being said, characterizing the libertarians as extreme anything is, indeed, a generalized attempt to paint with broad strokes of discredit. Better to specifically reason against their ideals. Second, Ayn Rand and her Objectivist 'principles' are ideological bunk masquerading as rational philosophy. Given your comments further down, in attempting to champion the need for a rational basis for policies, there is much irrationality in Rand's positions and ideology, and her ideas only trend toward sacrificing the many for the needs of the few. This opposes the purpose of civil society, as well as the cause and foundation of justice. Furthermore, we already have enough individualism going around. It has not made the world a better place.
    - javert 13y ago
      It doesn't appear that you've read her work. Everything you've said about Rand is straightforwardly incorrect. For instance, > her ideas only trend toward sacrificing the many for the needs of the few She specifically and clearly explains in her work why that is not the implication of her philosophy, and there is no reason to believe it would be.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

mindcrime 13y ago

The Libertarian movement is an extreme right wing movement. Everybody seems to think that, but I don't believe it to be the case. A better statement is that "Libertarians are right of Right and left of Left". So depending on your existing world-view, you would probably see the Libertarians as either radically Leftist or radically Rightist, and - in either case - you'd be partially correct and partially wrong. For example, Libertarians align with the left, and would go further than the standard American Left on many social issues: Abortion - Libertarians tend to be pro-choice and the LP platform specifically says that the State should not be involved in making those decisions. Drug laws - a typical American "Leftist" position might be "legalize marijuana". A Libertarian position would be more like "The State has no authority whatsoever to regulate what you put into your own body. End ALL drug laws". Death Penalty - Libertarians are generally opposed to the death penalty. Gay marriage / minority rights - Libertarians believe the Govt. should have no say in marriage at all, which implies that homosexual couples should be able to marry if they want. Of course, it also implies that others should be free to choose not to recognize that marriage, but hey... that's the price of freedom: You want to be free, you can't compel other people to behave the way you want them to. OTOH, yes, Libertarians tend to be more closely aligned with "the Right" on economic issues: taxation, trade, business regulation, etc. But I don't think it's fair to call the Libertarian movement "an extreme right wing movement". If for no other reason, because a simple "left / right" dichotomy is not a valid model for representing political orientation.

javert 13y ago
> But I don't think it's fair to call the Libertarian movement "an extreme right wing movement". A good response to people who say that is to point out that there is nothing wrong with being "extreme." That word is just being used as an emotional smear tactic. "Extreme" basically means the same thing as "pure" or "principled," which are both potentially good things. (Ayn Rand has an essay that points all this out, it's not my idea.) The guy may have a legitimate (to his view) objection, but it's that libertarians are extreme right, not extreme right. (Or, extreme anti-progressive if you want to reject the left-right terminology, which I pretty much agree with you on).
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- bobwaycott 13y ago
  First, "extreme" does not--basically or otherwise--mean the same thing as "pure" or "principled". Not generally, and not specifically in this context. That being said, characterizing the libertarians as extreme anything is, indeed, a generalized attempt to paint with broad strokes of discredit. Better to specifically reason against their ideals. Second, Ayn Rand and her Objectivist 'principles' are ideological bunk masquerading as rational philosophy. Given your comments further down, in attempting to champion the need for a rational basis for policies, there is much irrationality in Rand's positions and ideology, and her ideas only trend toward sacrificing the many for the needs of the few. This opposes the purpose of civil society, as well as the cause and foundation of justice. Furthermore, we already have enough individualism going around. It has not made the world a better place.
  - javert 13y ago
    It doesn't appear that you've read her work. Everything you've said about Rand is straightforwardly incorrect. For instance, > her ideas only trend toward sacrificing the many for the needs of the few She specifically and clearly explains in her work why that is not the implication of her philosophy, and there is no reason to believe it would be.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]