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"[a] coal power plant's radiation output [into the environment] is over 3 times greater" than that of a "nuclear power plant with the same electrical output".

"[a] coal power plant's radiation output [into the environment] is over 3 times greater" than that of a "nuclear power plant with the same electrical output". Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_station#Radioactive_trace_elements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_station#Radioactive_...

Angostura 17y ago
Unless there's some kind of accident.
- bcl 17y ago
  That is not a certainty. According to the NRC report on 3-mile Island (which I think is the worst in US history) the release was about 1 millirem. For comparison a x-ray is 6 millirem and normal background radiation is 100-125. Western reactor designs are not like Chernobyl. They are designed to fail 'safe' and have over-designed containment vessels to prevent accidents from leaking into the community.
  - Tangurena 17y ago
    The reactor at Three Mile Island only had a containment vessel because it was on the flight path in/out of a nearby airport. Otherwise federal regulators were going to let it be built without a containment vessel. The containment vessel at Three Mile Island was designed to survive a direct hit by a loaded 707 - because those flew over the reactor. They were NOT over-designed.
    - dmfdmf 17y ago
      This is absolute ignorant non-sense. Edit: I designed the Feedwater Control System for the Lungmen Nuclear power stations going up in Taiwan. Edit2: Reply to jibiki below; Yes, no containment was the absurd comment. I don't know the details but I can guess the builders strengthened the containment building to appease the eviros - it was probably completely unnecessary and only raised the costs. The enviros and the lefties have gotten away with such "stories" for years but now thanks to the internet, the truth shall set us free! See Clay Shirky on Thinking the Unthinkable.
      - jibiki 17y ago
        It seems to be a popular story. From: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/27/three_mile_island_30th_anniversary_of http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/27/three_mile_island_30th... "I want to mention that the reactor containment at Three Mile Island was actually thicker than most others, because citizen action, prior to the construction of the plant, demanded a thicker containment, because the Three Mile Island Unit 2 is right in the flight path of the Harrisburg Airport."--Harvey Wasserman (Of course, nobody was ever planning to build it without a containment... I hope?)
      - lukifer 17y ago
        > the enviros and the lefties Please don't lump us all together like that; this enviro-leftie is very pro-nuclear. Following political ideology blindly has never been limited to any particular viewpoint.
        llimllib 17y ago
        just because an exception exists doesn't mean that it was an unreasonable statement.
        lukifer 17y ago
        A single exception, no. But environmentalism takes a lot of forms: Greenpeace hippies, Sierra Club hunters and naturalists, and humanists interested in long-term sustainability (which is where I fall). Though there's still a strong residual echo of the (understandable) knee-jerk reaction to nuclear from the 70s, there are now many environmentalists who support nuclear as a lesser evil compared to coal. Apologies for having an easily-struck nerve, re: implied "All X are Y" statements. :)
- ivankirigin 17y ago
  Again, you need to put nuclear in context of alternative energy generation mechanisms. People talk a lot about TMI, but not the integrated & far larger accidents from coal.
- jedc 17y ago
  That's where a professional and well-trained workforce is important, with indepenent and very strong regulations. I'm a former US Navy submarine officer, and the US Navy has been operating nuclear reactors in some of the harshest environments imaginable for 40+ years without any accidents whatsoever. It works because Navy sailors are incredibly well-trained and well-drilled. But also because there is a virtually independent bureaucracy in the US Navy that can literally "take away your keys" to run the plant. (And I do mean literally.) Regular inspections that scare the st out of everyone because of their intensity and thoroughness. But it works, and with no accidents.
  - miked 17y ago
    I'd heard some years ago that the Navy's nuclear operations officers and their nuclear safety officers are not allowed to even talk to each other, just to prevent any chumminess from creeping into the relationship. Is that still true?
  - Tichy 17y ago
    Except that 40 years is nothing. Things can change - look at the former Sowjet Union. Maybe a US president comes to power that withdraws funding from the Navy, and things will start to deteriorate (just making that up, but with really long time frames, all bets are off). Edit: yahooing for "us navy reactor accidents" comes up with quite a few hits, and allegations that mostly the Navy is very secretive about it. Edit2: Even with the best trained staff, the staff is essentially just running an algorithm. Training the staff makes sure they run the algorithm correctly, but it does not protect against bugs in the algorithm. If you are a software developer, you don't believe in bug free algorithms (above a certain complexity).
    - ovi256 17y ago
      If you are a software developer, you don't believe in bug free algorithms (above a certain complexity). Please allow me to introduce you to Mr. Donald Knuth (pronounced Kah-nuth). He would like to have a word with you.
      - 17y ago
- tjmc 17y ago
  Coal's the one with the bad record there too. An average of 1000 coal miners die each year from accidents in China alone.

Angostura 17y ago

Unless there's some kind of accident.

bcl 17y ago
That is not a certainty. According to the NRC report on 3-mile Island (which I think is the worst in US history) the release was about 1 millirem. For comparison a x-ray is 6 millirem and normal background radiation is 100-125. Western reactor designs are not like Chernobyl. They are designed to fail 'safe' and have over-designed containment vessels to prevent accidents from leaking into the community.
- Tangurena 17y ago
  The reactor at Three Mile Island only had a containment vessel because it was on the flight path in/out of a nearby airport. Otherwise federal regulators were going to let it be built without a containment vessel. The containment vessel at Three Mile Island was designed to survive a direct hit by a loaded 707 - because those flew over the reactor. They were NOT over-designed.
  - dmfdmf 17y ago
    This is absolute ignorant non-sense. Edit: I designed the Feedwater Control System for the Lungmen Nuclear power stations going up in Taiwan. Edit2: Reply to jibiki below; Yes, no containment was the absurd comment. I don't know the details but I can guess the builders strengthened the containment building to appease the eviros - it was probably completely unnecessary and only raised the costs. The enviros and the lefties have gotten away with such "stories" for years but now thanks to the internet, the truth shall set us free! See Clay Shirky on Thinking the Unthinkable.
    - jibiki 17y ago
      It seems to be a popular story. From: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/27/three_mile_island_30th_anniversary_of http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/27/three_mile_island_30th... "I want to mention that the reactor containment at Three Mile Island was actually thicker than most others, because citizen action, prior to the construction of the plant, demanded a thicker containment, because the Three Mile Island Unit 2 is right in the flight path of the Harrisburg Airport."--Harvey Wasserman (Of course, nobody was ever planning to build it without a containment... I hope?)
    - lukifer 17y ago
      > the enviros and the lefties Please don't lump us all together like that; this enviro-leftie is very pro-nuclear. Following political ideology blindly has never been limited to any particular viewpoint.
      - llimllib 17y ago
        just because an exception exists doesn't mean that it was an unreasonable statement.
        lukifer 17y ago
        A single exception, no. But environmentalism takes a lot of forms: Greenpeace hippies, Sierra Club hunters and naturalists, and humanists interested in long-term sustainability (which is where I fall). Though there's still a strong residual echo of the (understandable) knee-jerk reaction to nuclear from the 70s, there are now many environmentalists who support nuclear as a lesser evil compared to coal. Apologies for having an easily-struck nerve, re: implied "All X are Y" statements. :)
ivankirigin 17y ago
Again, you need to put nuclear in context of alternative energy generation mechanisms. People talk a lot about TMI, but not the integrated & far larger accidents from coal.
jedc 17y ago
That's where a professional and well-trained workforce is important, with indepenent and very strong regulations. I'm a former US Navy submarine officer, and the US Navy has been operating nuclear reactors in some of the harshest environments imaginable for 40+ years without any accidents whatsoever. It works because Navy sailors are incredibly well-trained and well-drilled. But also because there is a virtually independent bureaucracy in the US Navy that can literally "take away your keys" to run the plant. (And I do mean literally.) Regular inspections that scare the st out of everyone because of their intensity and thoroughness. But it works, and with no accidents.
- miked 17y ago
  I'd heard some years ago that the Navy's nuclear operations officers and their nuclear safety officers are not allowed to even talk to each other, just to prevent any chumminess from creeping into the relationship. Is that still true?
- Tichy 17y ago
  Except that 40 years is nothing. Things can change - look at the former Sowjet Union. Maybe a US president comes to power that withdraws funding from the Navy, and things will start to deteriorate (just making that up, but with really long time frames, all bets are off). Edit: yahooing for "us navy reactor accidents" comes up with quite a few hits, and allegations that mostly the Navy is very secretive about it. Edit2: Even with the best trained staff, the staff is essentially just running an algorithm. Training the staff makes sure they run the algorithm correctly, but it does not protect against bugs in the algorithm. If you are a software developer, you don't believe in bug free algorithms (above a certain complexity).
  - ovi256 17y ago
    If you are a software developer, you don't believe in bug free algorithms (above a certain complexity). Please allow me to introduce you to Mr. Donald Knuth (pronounced Kah-nuth). He would like to have a word with you.
    - 17y ago
tjmc 17y ago
Coal's the one with the bad record there too. An average of 1000 coal miners die each year from accidents in China alone.