5 ms·

Exactly this. It may start with "rich" people, but eventually can become the norm. There are so many examples to support this, I think it should be enough to

by tankbot 13y ago

Exactly this. It may start with "rich" people, but eventually can become the norm. There are so many examples to support this, I think it should be enough to just mention the personal computer.

peterwwillis 13y ago
Yes, i'm sorry for being dismissive. The industry push toward hybrid and electric cars will definitely be benefited by Tesla's sole engineering prowess, and we will all benefit in at least 20 years. But you bring up another great example! The personal computer. From more efficient personal entertainment to not having to retain information, the personal computer has enriched our lives in countless ways. We would all be much worse off without the novel inventions that made it such a success. (Please excuse my snark, I know the PC has had positive impacts, though I believe many are overblown) Unfortunately, the pollution caused by the production and disposal of personal computers has not only become an ecological disaster, it's destroying the health and habitat of human beings around the globe. The biggest challenge today is not in creating a new gadget, it is how to clean up the damage done by the industry and prevent it from continuing. I'm not saying you should stop focusing on your start-up and flipping it for cash in the Silicon Valley Gold Rush. I'm saying, if no good hackers focus on solving the problems that affect the general public, the cash you make will be invested in purchasing a habitable plastic bubble to live in.
- tankbot 13y ago
  All too true. Hopefully these tools we've been able to build and refine over the years will help lead to further advancements in 'green' computing.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jlgreco 13y ago
  > Unfortunately, the pollution caused by the production and disposal of personal computers has not only become an ecological disaster, it's destroying the health and habitat of human beings around the globe. The biggest challenge today is not in creating a new gadget, it is how to clean up the damage done by the industry and prevent it from continuing. I am not a fan of the guy, and they don't focus on ecological damage, but I would assert that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation alone has more than offset that. You don't even need to get into how computers themselves have improved the world.
  - peterwwillis 13y ago
    I agree the BMGF has done wonderful things. But what specifically are you saying they have offset, and how? I am not very aware of anything they do other than working on malaria and perhaps food/aid assistance. The PC industry has kids living in toxic waste dumps and farms are growing crops and animals with high levels of toxic substances, to say nothing of cancer killing off families in droves.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      If I were given the option: "1) Have the BMGF and an extensive e-waste problem, or 2) Have neither", I would choose 1) without any hesitation. Wouldn't you? (Of course Bill Gates cannot possibly be held responsible for all e-waste, but suppose that we do for the purposes of this discussion.)
    - benaiah 13y ago
      Malaria killed 660,000 people last year alone, with 219,000,000 cases. From the WHO 2012 Malaria Report: > Between 2000 and 2010, malaria mortality rates fell by 26% around the world. In the WHO African Region the decrease was 33%. During this period, an estimated 1.1 million malaria deaths were averted globally, primarily as a result of a scale-up of interventions. [1] Malaria is a far bigger problem than e-waste. I'd suggest that you are the one with the backwards priorities, not the BMGF (though I disagree with some of their methodology, their goal makes a lot more sense than "eliminating e-waste" would). [1]: http://www.who.int/malaria/publications/world_malaria_report_2012/wmr2012_factsheet.pdf http://www.who.int/malaria/publications/world_malaria_report...
      - peterwwillis 13y ago
        Clearly, then, malaria is a much bigger problem than e-waste. Kudos to BMGF for tackling this deadly issue. So there are many issues, such as malaria, that would benefit greatly from good hackers working on them for the public good instead of for private wealth. BMGF is unfortunately a very rare case of a technologist doing good for humanity's sake instead of his own.
- kbenson 13y ago
  The computer begat large scale information systems. Eventually, it brought open large scale information systems. What's more important, having people volunteer to go to a village in Africa and build some wind turbines in a poor energy deficient village, or providing free plans for villagers to do it themselves using local or very low cost materials? That's a complex question in its abstract form, and I don't believe it always yields the same answer when applied specifically.

by tankbot 13y ago

Exactly this. It may start with "rich" people, but eventually can become the norm. There are so many examples to support this, I think it should be enough to just mention the personal computer.

peterwwillis 13y ago

Yes, i'm sorry for being dismissive. The industry push toward hybrid and electric cars will definitely be benefited by Tesla's sole engineering prowess, and we will all benefit in at least 20 years. But you bring up another great example! The personal computer. From more efficient personal entertainment to not having to retain information, the personal computer has enriched our lives in countless ways. We would all be much worse off without the novel inventions that made it such a success. (Please excuse my snark, I know the PC has had positive impacts, though I believe many are overblown) Unfortunately, the pollution caused by the production and disposal of personal computers has not only become an ecological disaster, it's destroying the health and habitat of human beings around the globe. The biggest challenge today is not in creating a new gadget, it is how to clean up the damage done by the industry and prevent it from continuing. I'm not saying you should stop focusing on your start-up and flipping it for cash in the Silicon Valley Gold Rush. I'm saying, if no good hackers focus on solving the problems that affect the general public, the cash you make will be invested in purchasing a habitable plastic bubble to live in.

tankbot 13y ago
All too true. Hopefully these tools we've been able to build and refine over the years will help lead to further advancements in 'green' computing.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jlgreco 13y ago
> Unfortunately, the pollution caused by the production and disposal of personal computers has not only become an ecological disaster, it's destroying the health and habitat of human beings around the globe. The biggest challenge today is not in creating a new gadget, it is how to clean up the damage done by the industry and prevent it from continuing. I am not a fan of the guy, and they don't focus on ecological damage, but I would assert that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation alone has more than offset that. You don't even need to get into how computers themselves have improved the world.
- peterwwillis 13y ago
  I agree the BMGF has done wonderful things. But what specifically are you saying they have offset, and how? I am not very aware of anything they do other than working on malaria and perhaps food/aid assistance. The PC industry has kids living in toxic waste dumps and farms are growing crops and animals with high levels of toxic substances, to say nothing of cancer killing off families in droves.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    If I were given the option: "1) Have the BMGF and an extensive e-waste problem, or 2) Have neither", I would choose 1) without any hesitation. Wouldn't you? (Of course Bill Gates cannot possibly be held responsible for all e-waste, but suppose that we do for the purposes of this discussion.)
  - benaiah 13y ago
    Malaria killed 660,000 people last year alone, with 219,000,000 cases. From the WHO 2012 Malaria Report: > Between 2000 and 2010, malaria mortality rates fell by 26% around the world. In the WHO African Region the decrease was 33%. During this period, an estimated 1.1 million malaria deaths were averted globally, primarily as a result of a scale-up of interventions. [1] Malaria is a far bigger problem than e-waste. I'd suggest that you are the one with the backwards priorities, not the BMGF (though I disagree with some of their methodology, their goal makes a lot more sense than "eliminating e-waste" would). [1]: http://www.who.int/malaria/publications/world_malaria_report_2012/wmr2012_factsheet.pdf http://www.who.int/malaria/publications/world_malaria_report...
    - peterwwillis 13y ago
      Clearly, then, malaria is a much bigger problem than e-waste. Kudos to BMGF for tackling this deadly issue. So there are many issues, such as malaria, that would benefit greatly from good hackers working on them for the public good instead of for private wealth. BMGF is unfortunately a very rare case of a technologist doing good for humanity's sake instead of his own.
kbenson 13y ago
The computer begat large scale information systems. Eventually, it brought open large scale information systems. What's more important, having people volunteer to go to a village in Africa and build some wind turbines in a poor energy deficient village, or providing free plans for villagers to do it themselves using local or very low cost materials? That's a complex question in its abstract form, and I don't believe it always yields the same answer when applied specifically.