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I've gotta agree with Appelbaum - this thesis is ridiculous and unsupported. There are tons of activists in many different fields, and there's nothing about be

by jenius 13y ago

I've gotta agree with Appelbaum - this thesis is ridiculous and unsupported. There are tons of activists in many different fields, and there's nothing about being a computer programmer that makes you more likely to be an activist. Just because this guy cited a couple of activists who were also computer programmers is just not support enough -- if he really wanted a balanced review, he would have talked about any activists in any other fields as well for comparison. The reason it was easy for him to make this connection between digital rights activism and programmers is because it's easy to find activists within a field they work in. So if you're talking about digital rights and internet openness, of course the champions of this are going to be people who work with computers for a living. If you look at something else like politics, or civil rights, or helping out poor people or people in war-torn countries, you'll find a whole lot less programmers stepping up to the plate on these issues, and for a totally sensible reason - it's not as relevant to them. I'd like to propose an alternate thesis: Within any field, there will be a certain small number of people who have strong morals and are willing to disobey authority to champion what they think is right. At the current moment, there is a particularly high rate of activism within the "digital rights" field because the internet is comparatively young and people are still trying to figure out what rights you have.

JamisonM 13y ago
What you wrote here is exactly what sprung to my mind upon reading the headline, never mind the story itself. But then after reading it I got to thinking of all the developers that I have met that are absolutely resolute in their belief that, for example, the whole project was done wrong from that start and needs to be written despite the fact that I think it is clear that the risk-reward for such a thing is a terrible trade off. And then there is the over-representation that I perceive in libertarian-types in the tech business. I don't know, maybe there is something to the idea that spending most of your time engaged in total control over a virtual environment that executes pure logic turns people into activist-types or attracts them. I think the most important thing to being an activist is to be sure you are right and I have met no shortage of hackers that are sure they are right (often no matter how wrong they actually are).
- hilko 13y ago
  I think the hacker problem is that we're too damn happy to solve a problem successfully, no matter if it is a problem of consequence or not.
w_t_payne 13y ago
FWIW: A lot of terrorists had/have an engineering background.
- signal9 13y ago
  This is what you can likely to expect to hear on television in the coming months.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  > "FWIW" It is worth fuck all.
  - w_t_payne 13y ago
    Possibly, yes ... but there may be something to it. Certainly, as a problem-solver, I get frustrated when I find a problem that I cannot solve. I tend to stay away from political (aka insoluble) problems for that very reason. My wife works in a more political field, often on problems where positions are held intransigently; where progress is measured incrementally; and where "solutions" may never be found. I would go insane in such a grinding; pointless environment. Insane enough to commit murder? In my case, probably not, but I don't think I would be too far off, and I can well imagine those who might be driven to such extremes.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Pointing out that many terrorists are engineers is about as actionable as pointing out that many terrorists are religious. Really, there is nothing you can do with this information. It is worthless, even if it is true.
      - w_t_payne 13y ago
        Again, possibly, yes -- the only insights on offer are seemingly rather obvious: that those seemingly predisposed to violence may be content with engaging with the problem in some other manner; if avenues were made available; That political engagement helps reduce societal tensions, and that providing avenues for political engagement that are as broad in participation as they are deep and detailed in substance may well engage and divert tensions that would otherwise lead to violence; This is well understood; and forms the basis of many peace processes around the world (Northern Ireland, for example).
bmoresbest55 13y ago
I would also have to agree with this. Hackers or technologists in general are simply a group of people that are not any more predisposed to activism. I know activist from many backgrounds and they all are at different levels of activism. Hackers are seen in this light of activism because computer are just the newest frontier of unknown limits and boundaries. Also, a lot of information is shared through computers now, possibly more so than any other medium in the history of the world (large claim, I know). This puts technology under a large microscope and therefore when a "hacker" comes out and says anything it is seen as extra important or highlighted more so than if it was not under the broad umbrella of technology. This is not to downplay the seriousness of the NSA scandal. This is something that is unprecedented for everyone, not just hackers. Just happened to be a hacker that is at the center of it.
theboywho 13y ago
The author of this article was a victim of the availability bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

by jenius 13y ago

JamisonM 13y ago

What you wrote here is exactly what sprung to my mind upon reading the headline, never mind the story itself. But then after reading it I got to thinking of all the developers that I have met that are absolutely resolute in their belief that, for example, the whole project was done wrong from that start and needs to be written despite the fact that I think it is clear that the risk-reward for such a thing is a terrible trade off. And then there is the over-representation that I perceive in libertarian-types in the tech business. I don't know, maybe there is something to the idea that spending most of your time engaged in total control over a virtual environment that executes pure logic turns people into activist-types or attracts them. I think the most important thing to being an activist is to be sure you are right and I have met no shortage of hackers that are sure they are right (often no matter how wrong they actually are).

hilko 13y ago
I think the hacker problem is that we're too damn happy to solve a problem successfully, no matter if it is a problem of consequence or not.

w_t_payne 13y ago

FWIW: A lot of terrorists had/have an engineering background.

signal9 13y ago
This is what you can likely to expect to hear on television in the coming months.
jlgreco 13y ago
> "FWIW" It is worth fuck all.
- w_t_payne 13y ago
  Possibly, yes ... but there may be something to it. Certainly, as a problem-solver, I get frustrated when I find a problem that I cannot solve. I tend to stay away from political (aka insoluble) problems for that very reason. My wife works in a more political field, often on problems where positions are held intransigently; where progress is measured incrementally; and where "solutions" may never be found. I would go insane in such a grinding; pointless environment. Insane enough to commit murder? In my case, probably not, but I don't think I would be too far off, and I can well imagine those who might be driven to such extremes.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Pointing out that many terrorists are engineers is about as actionable as pointing out that many terrorists are religious. Really, there is nothing you can do with this information. It is worthless, even if it is true.
    - w_t_payne 13y ago
      Again, possibly, yes -- the only insights on offer are seemingly rather obvious: that those seemingly predisposed to violence may be content with engaging with the problem in some other manner; if avenues were made available; That political engagement helps reduce societal tensions, and that providing avenues for political engagement that are as broad in participation as they are deep and detailed in substance may well engage and divert tensions that would otherwise lead to violence; This is well understood; and forms the basis of many peace processes around the world (Northern Ireland, for example).

bmoresbest55 13y ago

I would also have to agree with this. Hackers or technologists in general are simply a group of people that are not any more predisposed to activism. I know activist from many backgrounds and they all are at different levels of activism. Hackers are seen in this light of activism because computer are just the newest frontier of unknown limits and boundaries. Also, a lot of information is shared through computers now, possibly more so than any other medium in the history of the world (large claim, I know). This puts technology under a large microscope and therefore when a "hacker" comes out and says anything it is seen as extra important or highlighted more so than if it was not under the broad umbrella of technology. This is not to downplay the seriousness of the NSA scandal. This is something that is unprecedented for everyone, not just hackers. Just happened to be a hacker that is at the center of it.

theboywho 13y ago

The author of this article was a victim of the availability bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic