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> no-one can deny that the raid is simply terrifying. It looked pretty amateurish to me. They had trouble climbing a 3 foot high gate, which after they had ‘sc
by Samuel_Michon 13y ago
> no-one can deny that the raid is simply terrifying.
It looked pretty amateurish to me. They had trouble climbing a 3 foot high gate, which after they had ‘scaled’ it, turns out was easily opened.
> such a heavily armed response
I counted 5 police officers who approached the house together, only one of them was armed with a rifle. I saw no violence whatsoever, it was pretty laid-back. At no point in the video did they point a gun at any of the suspects, and they lowered their fire arms before they entered the building (highly unusual if you think you’re in danger or if you want to intimidate someone).
> Dotcom never posed a physical threat to anyone
When you’re dealing with a rich suspect who loves expensive toys and has a large staff, you have to be prepared for anything. In the US, they would’ve sent an army to surround and comb through that enormous mansion. Given that Dotcom is morbidly obese, I doubt the agents saw him as a physical threat, it’s his staff and the presence of weapons they needed to worry about.
- mrmagooey 13y agoI'm pretty sure that in most countries if a police officer turns up with a silenced automatic weapon then the police action is no longer "laid-back".
- aranw 13y agoWow you really have no idea do you? Seriously just cause you live in the US and everything is over the top including police force, that doesn't mean its the norm. I can ensure you police force in the US and the use of guns is over the top and unjustified, so was this in the case for Dotcom.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoI don’t live in the US. Even in the Netherlands, where I live, police raids are a lot larger than just 5 agents and one rifle. In your country, police officers don’t carry guns and tactical units are armed with flowers?
- codeulike 13y ago>In your country, police officers don’t carry guns? Correct. UK.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoThe norm is that police officers wear guns, the UK is an exception. But even in the UK, police carry guns and rifles during raids – especially if they suspect to be met with armed resistance (as was the case with Kim Schmitz). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Firearms_Officer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Firearms_Officer
- minimize_me 13y agoNot all raids, no.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoI didn’t say ‘all raids’.
- lmm 13y agoDid you read the page you linked to? Guns are only carried by specialized units. While said units will be called in if the circumstances seem to merit it, that's an unusual occurrence; the normal case, even on a raid, is that noone is carrying firearms.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoHow does any of that contradict my earlier comment? If the police plans to raid a building which they suspect hosts armed suspects, like in the case of Kim Schmitz, surely they’ll send in units carrying fire arms.
- codeulike 13y agoNot that much of an exception. Countries where Police do not carry guns as part of normal duty: UK New Zealand Japan Norway Iceland Cook Islands St. Helena Falkland Islands Pitcairn Island sources: http://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32618-countries-with-unarmed-police/ http://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32618-c... http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50601024 http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50601024
- sp332 13y agoMaybe explain that to Dotcom, who had a shotgun with him in his panic room when they cut him out of it.
- Already__Taken 13y agoSeems like a sensible place to keep a shotgun.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoIs hiding from the police in your safe room sensible as well? If they have to cut you out of it, I’d say that constitutes resisting arrest.
- nknighthb 13y agoAs no reasonable police officer would execute a paramilitary operation over copyright infringement, no reasonable person can be expected to believe that the armed thugs busting down his door are police, no matter their claims.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoThe charges were filed weeks before the raid. Surely he was given numerous opportunities to turn himself in. Also, this was only one of many charges he couldn’ve been brought in for. Kim Schmitz is no boy scout. I don’t underatand why so many people (which includes HN members) idolize him.
- nknighthb 13y agoDid they ask him to turn himself in? I can't say I know what New Zealand's procedure for this actually is, but in the US, one of two things would occur in a white-collar case like this: The suspect would either surrender with his attorney at a prearranged time and place, or he would be arrested by a couple of officers who peacefully knock on his door. Anything else would be seen as grossly excessive force, the fallout of which could easily involve ruined careers and political repercussions. And I don't know who you're talking about that "idolizes" him. I don't. I actually have no particular opinion about him one way or another, only about the manner in which the case has been handled. You're the one who seems to be taking things very personally.
- adrr 13y agoBecause Kim is super rich, they wouldn't have raid him in the US. It would have been like the Madoff arrest, knock on his door an arrest him. Hell they may have even contacted his lawyers and asked him to surrender.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoSchmitz had fled several countries previously to avoid being jailed, why should this time be different? Because of his vast amount of funds and his loyalty to no one, he was a flight risk, so they decided to pick him up. However, they knew that was going to be tricky. Schmitz has an enormous mansion in a rural area. He has a large security staff and a private helicopter. In the end, police “neutralized locks and cut their way into a safe room, where Dotcom was found with what looked like a sawed-off shotgun”.
- matthewsimon 13y ago> ... did they point a gun at any of the suspects ... This may seem a minor point, but the housekeeper and other staff were not "suspects", they're innocent members of the public.
- Samuel_Michon 13y agoHis associates Finn Batato, Mathias Ortmann and Bram van der Kolk were also arrested and are suspects.