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Live on C-SPAN now: NSA Chief Testifies at Cybersecurity Hearing
- rdl 13y agoOregon's senators are far better than I reasonably would have expected. Watch Senator Merkley question at 1:21 "exactly how did you get from these restrictions to collecting EVERYTHING, including my god-damn cellphone right here" (or something more polite, possibly). GEN Alexander decides to defer to the Feinstein classified hearing; i.e. not answering, by saying, "let me make sure I get this exactly right, because it is a complex area."
- narrator 13y agoIt's as if all the important decisions have already been made and they are just going through the motions.
- gasull 13y agoThat's exactly it.
- willurd 13y agoYeah. They are all reading from scripts. "This is something that we take looks down at script very seriously." Also, it appears that they were all privy to what each other was going to say before the hearing. "looks down at script As you said ..." Does that disturb anyone else?
- betterunix 13y agoIt is already known that the NSA chief received the questions Sen. Wyden planned to ask him in advance, to give him time to prepare a response, a few months ago. This is said as if it is business as usual (and used to paint him in a worse light, since he lied before Congress after being given time to plan his answers), and I have no reason to think it is not. Yet another reason to vote third party.
- willurd 13y agoI had a little trouble parsing your first paragraph. But vote third party? Now you're speaking my language :)
- declan 13y agoIt was a clever move by Wyden to try to catch him in a perjury trap.
- betterunix 13y agoMaybe so, but the fact that nobody even seemed surprised that someone would be sent questions in advance of their appearance before Congress is what concerns me. This seems to be a normal, expected thing that happens when powerful people are questioned by Congress -- the whole thing is just for show. If you are going to email your questions to the person in advance, you might as well just have them email their responses.
- willurd 13y agoI don't know what I find more disturbing: the complete and utter disregard for the rule of law by our elected and appointed officials, or the fact that some people find no fault with that.
- declan 13y agoIt's not always the case. But sending a witness questions in advance: a) increases the odds you can nail them for perjury and b) takes away the opportunity to say "I haven't been briefed on this and I'll get back to you later." This came up about 10 minutes ago with FBI director Mueller's Judiciary appearance as well. Chaffetz wanted to nail him on geolocation surveillance and sent questions in advance, and Mueller said he ignored his aides and didn't read the briefing. Bad form.
- ollysb 13y agoThe delivery was a bit weak though, maybe they should get some professional actors in.
- asperous 13y agoIf you notice, many of the papers were passed to him as he read, so it's possible one of his advisers had many prepared answers or simply wrote them down as the senator asked him questions.
- willurd 13y agoIt wasn't just him, it was everyone, the senators included.
- rdl 13y agoI guess I intellectually knew, but didn't fully appreciate, just how old all of those people are. Working in Silicon Valley, I'm used to seeing 20-45 year olds in lots of useful roles. Everyone in that room seemed to be late-40s or older (the military people were the youngest).
- bilbo0s 13y agoWell... No offense... but I wouldn't want the younger crowd sitting around deciding when to launch a nuke. It's fine to put us in charge of the "like" buttons, Farmville tractors, or a web pages like Yahoo or Facebook. But some things are a bit more important. It's fine to have younger aids or advisers. Probably good to have youthful energy INFORM certain decisions. Not so sure it's a good idea, however, to have youthful energy MAKING certain decisions. And I say that, I guess, as part of what's considered the "younger crowd".
- nullc 13y agoThere is also a difference between not having younger people (like, ahem, '30') in charge vs not even having them as part of the discussion at all. Experience has value, so does a diversity of backgrounds.
- JackpotDen 13y agoI really want artists to decide solutions to my power and infrastructure problems.
- rdl 13y agoNow you get lawyers and a social worker doing so! (well, after they spent ~30 years in Washington mainly fundraising).
- WalterSear 13y agoHaving the old farts make all the decisions about technology is what got us into this situation in the first place.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- dmead 13y ago"oh woops, NIST has never seen 215 billion. thats' the defense guys" is this real life?
- rdl 13y agoThe depressing thing is Durbin wasn't smart enough to articulate it, but when he tried to ask "do you collect metadata or other data about non-telephone communications", GEN Alexander did a great job of misdirecting to being about court orders and getting access to a specific individual's information. Knowing if metadata is collected broadly, and what metadata is collected, is key. There's probably no chance of that in unclassified congressional hearings; only via leaks. We know they collect credit cards and some other records (air travel and customs/immigration for sure, and probably hotels and DMV and other government records, what else).
- cinquemb 13y agoThis is pretty much a circle jerk…
- mtgx 13y agoYeah. They probably made it before the one against NSA starts, to show that what NSA is doing is useful.
- cinquemb 13y ago"We want the nation to know that we are being transparent. For example, We don't look into what is going into Wall St." - Gen. Alexander Note to "Terrorists": go IPO :P
- gravitronic 13y agoLol - don't worry citizens we're only monitoring you, not banks or big business.
- jivatmanx 13y agoReminds me how the FBI will only do sting operations to illiterate, 16 year old Somali immigrants. Nobody every sting ops bankers with insider information, even though doing this even occasionally would drastically reduce it.
- maaku 13y agoI wish they were looking into Wall St...
- eightyone 13y agoI love how Gen. Alexander and friends are like, "We're so vulnerable!", and see no problem with storing mass amounts of information that is begging to be hacked.
- eightyone 13y agoIn this hearing there has been so much smearing in reguards to Snowden's educational background. There are plenty of smart people who didn't graduate from high school.
- jacoblyles 13y agoIt may be true that people without traditional education credentials are likely to be less conformist/more likely to cause trouble.
- zxcdw 13y agoWhether that so-called "trouble" is good or bad and for whom is another thing, which can be quite subjective even. Problems at school aren't necessarily an indicator of a failure. There are many examples of bad school performance which doesn't result in bad performance in whatever the person pursues. As far as I am aware, even Einstein didn't really like being in school and had problems concentrating, yet his scientific achievements are undeniabe. Hence the problem with focusing on educational background is that it gives the false impression that bad background -> bad person. What Snowden did is, as far as I am aware, considered an extremely good thing when it comes to privacy of US and non-US citizens alike. So again, Snowdens lack of educational background could be viewed in similar light that of those others who haven't been hindered by the lack of school performance in the past(and in the future). I claim that school and educational performance doesn't mean a shit in individual basis(as in case of Snowden, he's an individual after all), although it might mean when one evaluates people collectively as a group. And even then exceptional individuals come up.
- dizzystar 13y agoAs far as I am aware, even Einstein didn't really like being in school and had problems concentrating, yet his scientific achievements are undeniabe. Not sure about that: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/06/23/1115185.htm http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/06/23/1115185.ht...
- jemka 13y ago"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." -Wizard of Oz
- macmac 13y agoI find it deeply disturbing that Sen Mikulski clearly does not understand the meaning of the words she is reading.
- mtgx 13y agoI noticed the same thing. I wonder if someone from NSA wrote all of that for her to read.
- ry0ohki 13y agoThe NSA is a huge employer in her state of Maryland.
- Zirro 13y agoSince I am unable to access the stream at this time, in which way is her lack of understanding noticeable?
- darxius 13y agoMostly the words she's using and how she seems to stumble over them. Every single noun has been affixed with "cyber" and I keep hearing the word "technoboondoggle". I have no clue what that is.
- MichaelGG 13y ago"Protect our domains .gov .mil .com" -- so it's all about DNS attacks?
- whiddershins 13y agoMikulski has no idea what she's saying.
- polarix 13y agoEvery time she says "protect the american people from" I keep filling in "the NSA and other overreaching government agencies" in my head. This is really an incredible spectacle of audacity.
- milin 13y agoFacepalm! Does she even know what she is talking about?
- whiddershins 13y agoKeith Alexander is a true politician, regardless of his title. When asked a question "could these powers be used in this way" answered the question he wanted to answer "we only use the power in this way."
- asperous 13y agoHe also dodged the question "can you get Google contacts?" by rambling off. And then he apologized and said he was afraid he'd reveal something important and that he'd answer the question in a private non-public meeting.
- whiddershins 13y agoOh, this is awesome: Keith Alexander explaining how what we really should do is let the NSA have a database that stores absolutely everything, and then they promise only to search through it when it is "reasonable."
- jsonne 13y agoSee, I'm personally of the same opinion. I couldn't figure it out, but then it hit me. It's the same line of logic that the military uses in their security clearances. Back in the day I used to work for a JAG lawyer, and have several friends that are/were in the military. So I do have some knowledge of the matter. The way they do things is this. There's clearance and then there's need to know. So for instance one of my friends worked in network IT for the military. So had access to computers with "top secret" information on them. However, he wasn't allowed to access any of the information on the computers. Simply to use them for his job. Sound familiar to what the NSA is saying? If there's other people on here that are closer to the military than I was please correct me, but it all starts to make "sense" when you think about it that way. I'm not saying it's right, in fact I think this system is likely problematic in a non military setting (and perhaps even within one as well)
- ismarc 13y agoI was in the military, with a clearance. You describe it reasonably well. A clearance means you can have access, if needed. I am completely against collection of information as they are doing because of time. A warrant gives them access to data from all time. This is a departure from current warrants that allow them to collect and examine data starting now (or as far back as it was stored by external parties). It's the difference between getting a warrant to wiretap a phone and getting a warrant to listen to every phone call ever made with a phone. In my mind, a warrant says we have have reasonable suspicion to collect more information as it stands right now, not reasonable suspicion to examine past behavior. Then again, I believe that the U.S.'s definition of rights are great and should be extended to all humans by the U.S., not just citizens or those on U.S. soil.
- btbuilder 13y ago
- julespitt 13y agoHope someone out there will post a Youtube link once it's over, or something comparable - can't seem to access it at all.
- WestCoastJustin 13y agoMikulski keeps calling "identity theft" war. This is a crime, it is not an act of war!
- laumars 13y agoThey're talking about their battle against cyber-crime as war - which is a reasonable statement to make. It's just the same as when governments and new agencies talk about the "war on drugs" etc.
- WestCoastJustin 13y agoExactly, that is what scares me!
- laumars 13y agoWhat's what scares you? The fact that the term "war" is used informally?
- jlgreco 13y agoDrawing comparisons to "the war on drugs" brings to mind a perpetual hopelessly misguided attempt to completely squash the unsquashable by throwing money at the police (or the equivalent), the escalating militarization of the police (or the equivalent) and the abridgement and/or suspension of civil rights (most notably the fourth). So I've got to say, it scares me too.
- venomsnake 13y agoThat kinda makes me want to see everyone that uses that rhetoric from the president downwards sent to base camp and then few tours of duty to Afghanistan to see exactly what war is. Then they probably would use something softer.
- laumars 13y agoI don't particularly like that particular symbolism either, but I do think you're overstating things somewhat as the term is clearly meant as a metaphor rather than a literal analogy. It's not even as if they're glorifying nor trivialising real life war. It's just an expression. However I do agree with you (and the OP) that the term was clearly picked because it has more impact than just saying "our project to cut down on x" But anyway, I'm sure there's more relevant things we can discuss on this topic than arguing the justification for one word. :)
- plainhold 13y agoThe conclusion seems to be that in order for the NSA chief to answer any interesting questions they have to declassify information. Which the NSA chief believes is a good idea as long as it doesn't harm the american people. What pieces of information they should declassify and make available to the public will be discussed in the closed hearing. Edit: Spelling
- MarkHarmon 13y agoWhat the heck is a techno boondoggle? What a hillbilly sounding term that only makes me cringe at what kind things the US government is going to cook up for us cyber pros, lol.
- JackpotDen 13y ago>techno boondoggle A government organisation that wastes money making a piece of technology.
- ihsw 13y agoSounds like we're going to see CISPA and CALEA-2 pass, especially with such a large emphasis on public-private partnerships and 'embedding' security methodologies/frameworks into products and services.
- WestCoastJustin 13y agoFYI: interesting discussions happening at 45:00+ minutes. Talking about Snowden's education and training, phone tapping and investigation, various authorities, etc. Interesting that they keep asking Alexander about what he thinks he is allowed to do or is doing?!
- cwilson 13y agoThis is like watching a super awkward scene in a movie or TV show that just won't end. The word "cyber" has been applied to every noun, and I've apparently been out of the loop on terms like "techno-boondoggle". This is just a little terrifying.
- sliverstorm 13y agoWhat about cybernouns? Do we have those yet?
- benjamincburns 13y ago#yeswedo
- pvnick 13y agoCyberhope, cyberchange, etc
- fungi 13y agoim !american so really not backing hope and change here... but should not you/we be directing our vitriol in a bipartisan fashion? with regards to the mass expansion of surveillance, shit seems pretty fucked up across the political divide.
- yen223 13y agoIt's really funny. Civil liberties seem to be the one thing that both Democrats and Republicans can agree is worth protecting, but both Democrat and Republican politicians tend to give bipartisan support towards programs that infringe on them.
- jlgreco 13y agoIt is like "verbing", but infinitely more annoying.
- ollysb 13y ago[1]The term arose from a 1935 New York Times report that more than $3 million had been spent on recreational activities for the jobless as part of the New Deal. Among these activities were crafts classes, where the production of "boon doggles[2]," [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondoggle_(project) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondoggle_(project) [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoubidou http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoubidou
- masoninthesis 13y agoA 65 year old lady starts using words like Techno-boondoggles, and everyone bought it. It's worse than I thought.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- contingencies 13y agoKey quotes: "Techno-boondoggles" "The government is very good at spending money" "Protect our domains: .mil, .gov and .com" "This is a committee that is loaded with talent!" "Rarely has a committee had so much talent!" "We are in a cyberwar every day. Every time someone steals our identity." "...continue to warn us against 'cyber', as a continuous threat." "I bring to your attention, the President's budget document" "The President has asked congress for 13 billion dollars in order to execute the cybersecurity strategy" "Protecting the taxpayer, in their role as both citizen and taxpayer." General Alexander introduced @ 8:00. General Alexander begins @ 13:30. General Alexander quotes: "So this is a bright future that we have! But it's complicated by cyberespionage, by cyberhacking..." Interesting @ 18:30 .. General Alexander mentions operating lawfully and the chairwoman's evil knowing grin is filmed.
- willurd 13y agoI was wondering if anyone else noticed the chairwoman's grin when General Alexander talked about operating lawfully. Made me sick. The whole charade made me sick...
- xegroeg 13y agoWho is the woman behind Keith Alexander passing him notes?
- willurd 13y agoA notable quote from our public servants: "The executive order, as you know, is this administration's effort after an attempt to get legislation last year." Let that soak in for a bit.
- davemaya 13y agoGrand-ma Milkuski seems to have a good understanding of what she is talking about...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]