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I thought Feinstein called him a traitor? I believe Boehner did as well. So #1 is not propaganda.

by sigzero 13y ago

tptacek 13y ago
Not following. Calling someone a traitor is definitely propaganda. My point is certainly not to defend that kind of behavior.
- oinksoft 13y ago
  Well, you did say Note though that nobody in the administration has called Snowden a traitor; as though fears begin and end with the Obama administration. A premature and telling defense. It's in the title: "The US Government," not "The Obama Administration."
  - tptacek 13y ago
    "The US Government" employs 2.6 million civilians. There are 538 congresspeople and 100 senators. Surely some of them believe and routinely say something toxic. I find Speaker Boehner to be an all-around toxic person in general. But I am not particularly alarmed at him calling Snowden a traitor. There are people in his party in Congress who believe Barack Obama is a traitor.
    - oinksoft 13y ago
      But you can't deny the hard line separating those who take oaths of office and those who do not. A low-level HUD employee's comments have far less gravity than those of a US Senator.
      - tptacek 13y ago
        I'm sorry, I just don't accept the point that anything some random Congressperson says represents the viewpoint of the whole US Government.
        oinksoft 13y ago
        That's because there is no holistic US government viewpoint (we hope!). The comments of prominent members of the house are important as well.
        Cushman 13y ago
        Are you really calling the Speaker of the House, the representative of arguably the most powerful political bloc in the world and second in line for the Presidency, a "random Congressperson"?
        tptacek 13y ago
        Yes. 200,000 Cincinattians elected him. 65,000,000 Americans elected the person who actually controls the NSA.
        Cushman 13y ago
        I think Cincinnati is OH-1/2, Boehner was elected by suburbanites. That aside, they elected him their representative. All of America, through their representatives, elected him Speaker. He's as close to the opposite of a "random" Congressperson as you can get. Among other things, like the fact that he runs the House, that means that if Snowden were a part of some plot, say, to assassinate the President and VP, he would become President. To be fair, that would also validate his accusations of treason.
        scott_s 13y ago
        I think Patrick is trying to distinguish between pure posturing, and posturing that can lead to action. When John Boehner calls Snowden a traitor, that's pure posturing because Boehner has no authority to prosecute Snowden as a traitor. But if, say, Eric Holder called Snowden a traitor, that would be different because Holder has the authority to prosecute Snowden as a traitor. Patrick's point, I believe, is that even with Boehner's status, he has no authority in the matter. So his words mean little.

I thought Feinstein called him a traitor? I believe Boehner did as well. So #1 is not propaganda.

by sigzero 13y ago

I thought Feinstein called him a traitor? I believe Boehner did as well. So #1 is not propaganda.

Not following. Calling someone a traitor is definitely propaganda. My point is certainly not to defend that kind of behavior.

oinksoft 13y ago
Well, you did say Note though that nobody in the administration has called Snowden a traitor; as though fears begin and end with the Obama administration. A premature and telling defense. It's in the title: "The US Government," not "The Obama Administration."
- tptacek 13y ago
  "The US Government" employs 2.6 million civilians. There are 538 congresspeople and 100 senators. Surely some of them believe and routinely say something toxic. I find Speaker Boehner to be an all-around toxic person in general. But I am not particularly alarmed at him calling Snowden a traitor. There are people in his party in Congress who believe Barack Obama is a traitor.
  - oinksoft 13y ago
    But you can't deny the hard line separating those who take oaths of office and those who do not. A low-level HUD employee's comments have far less gravity than those of a US Senator.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      I'm sorry, I just don't accept the point that anything some random Congressperson says represents the viewpoint of the whole US Government.
      - oinksoft 13y ago
        That's because there is no holistic US government viewpoint (we hope!). The comments of prominent members of the house are important as well.
      - Cushman 13y ago
        Are you really calling the Speaker of the House, the representative of arguably the most powerful political bloc in the world and second in line for the Presidency, a "random Congressperson"?
        tptacek 13y ago
        Yes. 200,000 Cincinattians elected him. 65,000,000 Americans elected the person who actually controls the NSA.
        Cushman 13y ago
        I think Cincinnati is OH-1/2, Boehner was elected by suburbanites. That aside, they elected him their representative. All of America, through their representatives, elected him Speaker. He's as close to the opposite of a "random" Congressperson as you can get. Among other things, like the fact that he runs the House, that means that if Snowden were a part of some plot, say, to assassinate the President and VP, he would become President. To be fair, that would also validate his accusations of treason.
        scott_s 13y ago
        I think Patrick is trying to distinguish between pure posturing, and posturing that can lead to action. When John Boehner calls Snowden a traitor, that's pure posturing because Boehner has no authority to prosecute Snowden as a traitor. But if, say, Eric Holder called Snowden a traitor, that would be different because Holder has the authority to prosecute Snowden as a traitor. Patrick's point, I believe, is that even with Boehner's status, he has no authority in the matter. So his words mean little.