4 ms·

> Americans don't want people visiting, working, or studying on their shores. This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population wit

> Americans don't want people visiting, working, or studying on their shores. This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US.

betterunix 13y ago
At the same time, though, foreigners are discouraged from studying certain topics. The security engineering group at my school lost a student a few years ago, because he was Chinese and the US government would not allow him to reenter the country due to his thesis topic (computer security). It took an assurance from the school that he would not be permitted to do any further work with his adviser and that he would switch research topics for him to be permitted entry to this country. The incredible stupidity here is that there is no classified research done by that group, nor by my own research group (cryptography). Everything is published in publicly available conferences and journals.
sarabellumac 13y ago
I have direct experience with an international academic conference that at one time rotated between being hosted in the USA and "abroad". The conference now avoids hosting in the USA because it is too difficult for academic phds to get travel visas. So much for your theory
46Bit 13y ago
> This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US. If anything I've been surprised at how consistently keen Americans are for high-skill immigration.
- zero_intp 13y ago
  it is part of our evil plot. intellectual gravity as it were. people in the middle (of the country) just don't get that economics are not zero sum. how empowered smart people tend to make more money, even if that means that they have to invent more money to make.
john_b 13y ago
While I agree with you on principle, the number of anti-immigration xenophobes is much greater than "a few ignorant morons". A few ignorant morons would not be able to elect so many congressmen over such a long period of time to support their agenda. Places like MIT hold the true minority opinion.
- littledot5566 13y ago
  Rather, they are louder.
- ubernostrum 13y ago
  Many European nations also have extremely loud but -- in comparison to the rest of their population/government -- small groups with extreme anti-immigration/"nationalist" stances. Some of them even get significant media coverage, or have control of a major news outlet or two.
rayiner 13y ago
Cambridge isn't exactly representative, either of americans' attitudes towards immigration nor of the immigrants themselves.
- dyladan 13y ago
  At Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, Michigan the story is pretty similar, and we aren't exactly the best known college worldwide.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Universities in general are far to the left of mainstream on these issues.
    - robomartin 13y ago
      Except universities don't set immigration policy. The claim by the post I responded to was, to boil it down, that Americans don't want immigration. Universities are just on easy data point to reach for.
- ritchiea 13y ago
  Obviously. The thing about America right now is that there's no one city or even state that is representative of the country. The country is experiencing a cultural and political deadlock which can sort of be generalized to a divide between the coasts and the south. If you live in Cambridge or SV or NYC you get angered by issues presented in the OP, why shouldn't this brilliant student be allowed into the country? That's not my America. Then immediately someone responds that where we live is not representative of America. Though let me remind you, if you believe the "real" America is the people in Alabama or the bureaucrats creating asinine policies that keep out brilliant foreign students, think about how much worse things would be without those of us in places like Cambridge to actually speak up and vote for candidates like Elizabeth Warren and say we don't like the way the other side is trying to run the country.
  - 13y ago
nostromo 13y ago
Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-bo...
- ankitml 13y ago
  this data is not for last 10 years. US was open.
  - rgbrenner 13y ago
    the us data is from 2009. Pretty sure that's less than 10 years.
- robomartin 13y ago
  Nothing like real data. The US has over three times more immigrants than any other country. I should also note it is my belief --my belief-- that most people in the US, outside of certain groups, are for LEGAL immigration. Don't come here illegally or with a student visa and then cry foul if not welcomed. EDIT: the reference to student visas is about using them illegally to get in and then stay. It is NOT about not allowing students with proper visas to come in and study.
  - kaoD 13y ago
    > The US has over three times more immigrants than any other country. Which is completely irrelevant because the US is hundreds of times larger than many countries. That's why we use percentages.
    - robomartin 13y ago
      The claim is that Americans don't want anyone to come here. That is utterly false and it is fully supported by this data. Your point might have been valid if the topic at hand were different.
      - 13y ago
Vivtek 13y ago
Accompany one of them for an immigration hearing sometime. You'll realize how wrong you are.
yitchelle 13y ago
Unfortunately, the "few ignorant morons" are usually in significant position of influence that can have wide spread impacts. It is even worse when these "morons" starts to become paranoid and developed a knee jerking reaction to their paranoia.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

betterunix 13y ago

At the same time, though, foreigners are discouraged from studying certain topics. The security engineering group at my school lost a student a few years ago, because he was Chinese and the US government would not allow him to reenter the country due to his thesis topic (computer security). It took an assurance from the school that he would not be permitted to do any further work with his adviser and that he would switch research topics for him to be permitted entry to this country. The incredible stupidity here is that there is no classified research done by that group, nor by my own research group (cryptography). Everything is published in publicly available conferences and journals.

sarabellumac 13y ago

I have direct experience with an international academic conference that at one time rotated between being hosted in the USA and "abroad". The conference now avoids hosting in the USA because it is too difficult for academic phds to get travel visas. So much for your theory

46Bit 13y ago

> This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US. If anything I've been surprised at how consistently keen Americans are for high-skill immigration.

zero_intp 13y ago
it is part of our evil plot. intellectual gravity as it were. people in the middle (of the country) just don't get that economics are not zero sum. how empowered smart people tend to make more money, even if that means that they have to invent more money to make.

john_b 13y ago

While I agree with you on principle, the number of anti-immigration xenophobes is much greater than "a few ignorant morons". A few ignorant morons would not be able to elect so many congressmen over such a long period of time to support their agenda. Places like MIT hold the true minority opinion.

littledot5566 13y ago
Rather, they are louder.
ubernostrum 13y ago
Many European nations also have extremely loud but -- in comparison to the rest of their population/government -- small groups with extreme anti-immigration/"nationalist" stances. Some of them even get significant media coverage, or have control of a major news outlet or two.

rayiner 13y ago

Cambridge isn't exactly representative, either of americans' attitudes towards immigration nor of the immigrants themselves.

dyladan 13y ago
At Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, Michigan the story is pretty similar, and we aren't exactly the best known college worldwide.
- rayiner 13y ago
  Universities in general are far to the left of mainstream on these issues.
  - robomartin 13y ago
    Except universities don't set immigration policy. The claim by the post I responded to was, to boil it down, that Americans don't want immigration. Universities are just on easy data point to reach for.
ritchiea 13y ago
Obviously. The thing about America right now is that there's no one city or even state that is representative of the country. The country is experiencing a cultural and political deadlock which can sort of be generalized to a divide between the coasts and the south. If you live in Cambridge or SV or NYC you get angered by issues presented in the OP, why shouldn't this brilliant student be allowed into the country? That's not my America. Then immediately someone responds that where we live is not representative of America. Though let me remind you, if you believe the "real" America is the people in Alabama or the bureaucrats creating asinine policies that keep out brilliant foreign students, think about how much worse things would be without those of us in places like Cambridge to actually speak up and vote for candidates like Elizabeth Warren and say we don't like the way the other side is trying to run the country.
- 13y ago

nostromo 13y ago

Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-bo...

ankitml 13y ago
this data is not for last 10 years. US was open.
- rgbrenner 13y ago
  the us data is from 2009. Pretty sure that's less than 10 years.
robomartin 13y ago
Nothing like real data. The US has over three times more immigrants than any other country. I should also note it is my belief --my belief-- that most people in the US, outside of certain groups, are for LEGAL immigration. Don't come here illegally or with a student visa and then cry foul if not welcomed. EDIT: the reference to student visas is about using them illegally to get in and then stay. It is NOT about not allowing students with proper visas to come in and study.
- kaoD 13y ago
  > The US has over three times more immigrants than any other country. Which is completely irrelevant because the US is hundreds of times larger than many countries. That's why we use percentages.
  - robomartin 13y ago
    The claim is that Americans don't want anyone to come here. That is utterly false and it is fully supported by this data. Your point might have been valid if the topic at hand were different.
    - 13y ago

Vivtek 13y ago

Accompany one of them for an immigration hearing sometime. You'll realize how wrong you are.

yitchelle 13y ago

Unfortunately, the "few ignorant morons" are usually in significant position of influence that can have wide spread impacts. It is even worse when these "morons" starts to become paranoid and developed a knee jerking reaction to their paranoia.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]