4 ms·

Are we going to trawl up and link every single case of someone being denied re-entry to the US? It's just getting rather tedious. Though as the constant karma

by weego 13y ago

Are we going to trawl up and link every single case of someone being denied re-entry to the US? It's just getting rather tedious. Though as the constant karma farming off similarly tedious and usually poorly researched and written blog posts of the last week continues unabated perhaps I am in a minority of readers who gets their news from decent sources and likes to come to HN for interesting technical articles.

davidw 13y ago
I think HN is seriously at risk of having jumped the shark for good. This NSA thing blew the lid off - the front page is completely full of articles about politics, with more each day about all kinds of different things. I suppose things may settle down again - they have after other big events, but... I worry, I worry. (And for the record, for those who conflate not wanting to see every article about this with not caring about it - I care about it deeply)
- sentenza 13y ago
  You might be right, but I have the feeling that something other is at play here too. The PRISM scandal has raised awareness and interest about these things and we are now seeing a suddenly released glut of stuff like this working its way through the system. These things are happening all the time, but I get the feeling that up until now only US-foreigners were aware of the extent of it.
- irollboozers 13y ago
  I disagree, these are 'big' problems, and exposure of these pain points to other smart entrepreneurs can only lead to a net benefit.
  - davidw 13y ago
    These are political problems that will be fixed by "politics" in its various forms: people making their voices heard, politicians doing their thing, donating money to organizations, lawsuits, stuff like that. Lots of hard work. They will not be fixed because you clicked the 'upvote' arrow on a bunch of stories on a niche site, thinking that "some smart entrepreneur types" will go fix the problem for you.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  The PRISM scandal remains a threat to US tech businesses. Long after it fades from HN, it will be a drag on growth. Since government credibility will be hard to repair, a big part of the solution is likely going to be stronger technical measures against any kind of snooping.
  - davidw 13y ago
    I do think it's relevant, and not some completely off-topic political thing. However, it's given way to a bunch more politics - people denied entry to the US, "there are nukes in the netherlands", and so on, and filled the front page, crowding out pretty much everything else. I just get a feeling that this is a turning point for the site, but only time will tell.
  - ankitml 13y ago
    Not only government's credibility. Credibility of all those companies who lied to us that our data is safe. Apple, FB google and likes
- paganel 13y ago
  > I think HN is seriously at risk of having jumped the shark for good. This NSA thing blew the lid off - the front page is completely full of articles about politics, with more each day about all kinds of different things. I share your caution, because I remember that for better or worse this is how reddit started changing back in the day (late 2007 - 2008), by focusing on politics (and then there came the memes and all that). But, one can sort of feel that all this is way more technology- and consequently HN-related than what Obama or Hillary Clinton had to say back in the day.
l33tbro 13y ago
Hmmm, I think HN is pretty great for interesting news from decent sources (usually Atlantic, NYT, New Yorker, etc). I also think people getting questionably denied entrance to the US is pretty newsworthy given the bomb that has been dropped in the last few days. Maybe don't click if it doesn't interest you?
- davidw 13y ago
  If you read the guidelines, it's pretty clear that simply being "newsworthy" is not really what this site is supposed to be about: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html That US immigration is f'cked up is not exactly new or interesting in any case - and certainly not "intellectually gratifying". Do you remember when Linus Torvalds had bureaucratic problems with his green card?
- morgosmaci 13y ago
  Unfortunately I can't stop people from voting this stuff up and there is no way for the majority of us to vote it back down.
- mhurron 13y ago
  They can deny you for any reason. Very literally any reason. It's not newsworthy, they've been able to do this since the US started to control immigration and it is not related to what the NSA has been doing since basically the NSA has been in existence. People are trying so hard to find tangible evidence of someone doing something with info the NSA has collected that they are latching on to anything that could be construed as such if you look at it believing you found that evidence.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    It's almost like that example Doctorow gave about false positives when you're searching for very rare events... now HN is "flagging" every government screw-up involving non-Americans as being due to PRISM.
jdotjdot 13y ago
While I agree about missing the technical articles; I appreciate seeing these, as I actually had no idea about the seriousness of some of these re-entry issues. Maybe the solution is a dedicated HN technology page, and a separate, dedicated "Of interest" page.
chaz 13y ago
My worry is that HN on PRISM is turning into the 24-hour news cycle on CNN. There's little new information lately, but upvotes are being given for contemporary relevance (arguably at the expense of quality of submission) and comments are turning into the same speculative circles of discussion.

by weego 13y ago

davidw 13y ago

I think HN is seriously at risk of having jumped the shark for good. This NSA thing blew the lid off - the front page is completely full of articles about politics, with more each day about all kinds of different things. I suppose things may settle down again - they have after other big events, but... I worry, I worry. (And for the record, for those who conflate not wanting to see every article about this with not caring about it - I care about it deeply)

sentenza 13y ago
You might be right, but I have the feeling that something other is at play here too. The PRISM scandal has raised awareness and interest about these things and we are now seeing a suddenly released glut of stuff like this working its way through the system. These things are happening all the time, but I get the feeling that up until now only US-foreigners were aware of the extent of it.
irollboozers 13y ago
I disagree, these are 'big' problems, and exposure of these pain points to other smart entrepreneurs can only lead to a net benefit.
- davidw 13y ago
  These are political problems that will be fixed by "politics" in its various forms: people making their voices heard, politicians doing their thing, donating money to organizations, lawsuits, stuff like that. Lots of hard work. They will not be fixed because you clicked the 'upvote' arrow on a bunch of stories on a niche site, thinking that "some smart entrepreneur types" will go fix the problem for you.
Zigurd 13y ago
The PRISM scandal remains a threat to US tech businesses. Long after it fades from HN, it will be a drag on growth. Since government credibility will be hard to repair, a big part of the solution is likely going to be stronger technical measures against any kind of snooping.
- davidw 13y ago
  I do think it's relevant, and not some completely off-topic political thing. However, it's given way to a bunch more politics - people denied entry to the US, "there are nukes in the netherlands", and so on, and filled the front page, crowding out pretty much everything else. I just get a feeling that this is a turning point for the site, but only time will tell.
- ankitml 13y ago
  Not only government's credibility. Credibility of all those companies who lied to us that our data is safe. Apple, FB google and likes
paganel 13y ago
> I think HN is seriously at risk of having jumped the shark for good. This NSA thing blew the lid off - the front page is completely full of articles about politics, with more each day about all kinds of different things. I share your caution, because I remember that for better or worse this is how reddit started changing back in the day (late 2007 - 2008), by focusing on politics (and then there came the memes and all that). But, one can sort of feel that all this is way more technology- and consequently HN-related than what Obama or Hillary Clinton had to say back in the day.

l33tbro 13y ago

Hmmm, I think HN is pretty great for interesting news from decent sources (usually Atlantic, NYT, New Yorker, etc). I also think people getting questionably denied entrance to the US is pretty newsworthy given the bomb that has been dropped in the last few days. Maybe don't click if it doesn't interest you?

davidw 13y ago
If you read the guidelines, it's pretty clear that simply being "newsworthy" is not really what this site is supposed to be about: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html That US immigration is f'cked up is not exactly new or interesting in any case - and certainly not "intellectually gratifying". Do you remember when Linus Torvalds had bureaucratic problems with his green card?
morgosmaci 13y ago
Unfortunately I can't stop people from voting this stuff up and there is no way for the majority of us to vote it back down.
mhurron 13y ago
They can deny you for any reason. Very literally any reason. It's not newsworthy, they've been able to do this since the US started to control immigration and it is not related to what the NSA has been doing since basically the NSA has been in existence. People are trying so hard to find tangible evidence of someone doing something with info the NSA has collected that they are latching on to anything that could be construed as such if you look at it believing you found that evidence.
- mpyne 13y ago
  It's almost like that example Doctorow gave about false positives when you're searching for very rare events... now HN is "flagging" every government screw-up involving non-Americans as being due to PRISM.

jdotjdot 13y ago

While I agree about missing the technical articles; I appreciate seeing these, as I actually had no idea about the seriousness of some of these re-entry issues. Maybe the solution is a dedicated HN technology page, and a separate, dedicated "Of interest" page.

chaz 13y ago

My worry is that HN on PRISM is turning into the 24-hour news cycle on CNN. There's little new information lately, but upvotes are being given for contemporary relevance (arguably at the expense of quality of submission) and comments are turning into the same speculative circles of discussion.