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And a homegrown Islamist network assassinated a well-known dutch film director after he made a movie criticizing the treatment of women in Islam: http://en.wik

And a homegrown Islamist network assassinated a well-known dutch film director after he made a movie criticizing the treatment of women in Islam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

lostlogin 13y ago
What? So you can have attacks on your country without requiring the world to go into lockdown, without having to invade several countries and without having to molest every traveler?
- johansch 13y ago
  I agree that is irrational behavior. But saying the Netherlands is tranquil in this aspect is wrong, was my point.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    My post was petty and sarcastic - however the Dutch don't seem to have the penchant for blasting the world with their dramas, but this may be a language barrier.. I did find the Netherlands to be tranquil - however I've only spent a week there, and didn't move around much. I didn't notice the things that have been discussed here over the last few day, and most are very disturbing.
- yread 13y ago
  The dutch took part in both operation enduring freedom and iraqi freedom. So you could say they did invade several countries.
  - jvdongen 13y ago
    In fact the Dutch owned New York once (then called New Amsterdam ;-) until they effectively traded it with the British for Suriname and some spare change. And that whole Dutch East Indies and Indonesia thing still has some repercussions till this day.
    - X-Istence 13y ago
      The Dutch still have parts of The Netherlands overseas, including people that can vote in the Dutch elections, along with territories that are overseen not by the Dutch government but by the King (used to be the Queen).
- toyg 13y ago
  > without having to molest every traveler Schiphol is organised better than most comparable airports, and it has improved dramatically in the last 5 years, but the level of actual harassment can still be quite high (seems to vary by day).
  - muyuu 13y ago
    It's probably the most harassing airport in Europe. I haven't been to all airports but I've been to many (>50) and Shiphol was the worst. Still better than the US though, if you're an EU citizen at least.
    - toyg 13y ago
      Maybe my POV is skewed by having MAN as home airport - security here is horrendous, slow, invasive and obsessed with trying every new braindead security scheme under the sun, including the infamous pornscanners. Schiphol was not that bad the few times I've used it (last three weeks ago), IIRC they do the actual scan at gates which I think is always the superior option. Completely agree on the EU/US comparison, of course. You can actually see how European aviation has now fully caught up and often surpassed its US counterpart -- US infrastructure looks old and creaky, often not fit for purpose, and thanks to TSA it now feels more like a series of gulags than a 3rd-millennium transportation network.
      - muyuu 13y ago
        I've been to Shithole 4 times (I try to avoid it though). I've been subjected to the pornscanners every time.
        X-Istence 13y ago
        You do know you can opt-out right? They actually have forms and posters hanging up informing you of your right to opt-out. All outbound travel to the US has to go through the porno scanners, each and every time I have flown to the US I have opted out, just like I have opted out each time I get asked to go through the porno scanner in the US... They don't make a fuss about it either, they just ask you to stand with your legs spread wide and arms spread and do a pat down/magnetic wand. Not as bad as the US where you get put into a sort of metal "hot box" where you are told to wait till they can find someone with a low enough IQ to grope you, followed by the question if you really want to opt-out, and the agent doing everything in his power to make it as uncomfortable for the person they are checking as possible. Only that tends to backfire on them, cause most of those idiots are giant homophobes... so playing with them while getting groped is kinda fun.
- roel_v 13y ago
  "without requiring the world to go into lockdown, without having to invade several countries and without having to molest every traveler?" Have you ever been here? There are cameras on all highways that recognize license plates and track the movement over every car on the road network (cfr: the ease with which they tracked the whereabouts of the father who killed his children a few weeks ago), it has the most phone taps per inhabitant (to the extent that if you look at the data, it seems like somebody accidentally types a few numbers too much when typing it into Excel, that's how far we are removed from the runner up), and in general the amount of information the government has on every citizen is staggering (e.g. the age at which you first grew pubes (!) ). At Schiphol you are searched at will - a few years ago I was on a flight back from the Caribbean and everybody on the plane was searched - thoroughly, more intense than when you are searched e.g. at sports events. Every city has autonomous authority to designate certain areas as 'search at will' areas - police can (and will), without cause, search you and your belongings (including your car - US doctrine about the car being an extension of a man's house? Hahaha, yeah, in the sense that it doesn't take much to search your house, either...). Most train stations are such zones, but most of the city centers of the bigger cities are, too (let that sink in - there a whole city center where police, without any cause, can search you and your belongings!) Oh, not carrying ID (anywhere)? €90 fine, and you can be taken into custody until you have proven your identity. No cause necessary for asking for it, either. Invading has never been a strategy generally employed here, the Dutch are merchants, war is bad for business (I'm sure there's a fitting Ferengi quote here...) Plus a country the size of a flyspeck on a global map just doesn't generally have the muscle. Look, I still love my country, and for all its flaws it's still the best place on earth to live for me - but let's not kid ourselves, the surveillance state is alive and kicking here, and the 'OMG the terrorists are coming' sentiment is, too.
  - willholloway 13y ago
    Fitting Ferengi Quotes: Rule of Acquisition 34: War is good for business. Rule of Acquisition 35: Peace is good for business.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    Yes I have visited - only for a week or so and I didn't travel around much. I flew in from London, and didn't notice the cameras etc which I did in the UK. I thought they were bad there. My sarcastic post has had a few very good replies. The disturbing behaviour of the state mentioned by you and others is oddly fascinating. Why do it? On a pure cost versus benefit analysis, how can it possibly be justified? Those that know The Netherlands have radically changed my views over the last week with facts and anecdotes about this. Please keep posting, I for one have been educated.

lostlogin 13y ago

What? So you can have attacks on your country without requiring the world to go into lockdown, without having to invade several countries and without having to molest every traveler?

johansch 13y ago
I agree that is irrational behavior. But saying the Netherlands is tranquil in this aspect is wrong, was my point.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- lostlogin 13y ago
  My post was petty and sarcastic - however the Dutch don't seem to have the penchant for blasting the world with their dramas, but this may be a language barrier.. I did find the Netherlands to be tranquil - however I've only spent a week there, and didn't move around much. I didn't notice the things that have been discussed here over the last few day, and most are very disturbing.
yread 13y ago
The dutch took part in both operation enduring freedom and iraqi freedom. So you could say they did invade several countries.
- jvdongen 13y ago
  In fact the Dutch owned New York once (then called New Amsterdam ;-) until they effectively traded it with the British for Suriname and some spare change. And that whole Dutch East Indies and Indonesia thing still has some repercussions till this day.
  - X-Istence 13y ago
    The Dutch still have parts of The Netherlands overseas, including people that can vote in the Dutch elections, along with territories that are overseen not by the Dutch government but by the King (used to be the Queen).
toyg 13y ago
> without having to molest every traveler Schiphol is organised better than most comparable airports, and it has improved dramatically in the last 5 years, but the level of actual harassment can still be quite high (seems to vary by day).
- muyuu 13y ago
  It's probably the most harassing airport in Europe. I haven't been to all airports but I've been to many (>50) and Shiphol was the worst. Still better than the US though, if you're an EU citizen at least.
  - toyg 13y ago
    Maybe my POV is skewed by having MAN as home airport - security here is horrendous, slow, invasive and obsessed with trying every new braindead security scheme under the sun, including the infamous pornscanners. Schiphol was not that bad the few times I've used it (last three weeks ago), IIRC they do the actual scan at gates which I think is always the superior option. Completely agree on the EU/US comparison, of course. You can actually see how European aviation has now fully caught up and often surpassed its US counterpart -- US infrastructure looks old and creaky, often not fit for purpose, and thanks to TSA it now feels more like a series of gulags than a 3rd-millennium transportation network.
    - muyuu 13y ago
      I've been to Shithole 4 times (I try to avoid it though). I've been subjected to the pornscanners every time.
      - X-Istence 13y ago
        You do know you can opt-out right? They actually have forms and posters hanging up informing you of your right to opt-out. All outbound travel to the US has to go through the porno scanners, each and every time I have flown to the US I have opted out, just like I have opted out each time I get asked to go through the porno scanner in the US... They don't make a fuss about it either, they just ask you to stand with your legs spread wide and arms spread and do a pat down/magnetic wand. Not as bad as the US where you get put into a sort of metal "hot box" where you are told to wait till they can find someone with a low enough IQ to grope you, followed by the question if you really want to opt-out, and the agent doing everything in his power to make it as uncomfortable for the person they are checking as possible. Only that tends to backfire on them, cause most of those idiots are giant homophobes... so playing with them while getting groped is kinda fun.
roel_v 13y ago
"without requiring the world to go into lockdown, without having to invade several countries and without having to molest every traveler?" Have you ever been here? There are cameras on all highways that recognize license plates and track the movement over every car on the road network (cfr: the ease with which they tracked the whereabouts of the father who killed his children a few weeks ago), it has the most phone taps per inhabitant (to the extent that if you look at the data, it seems like somebody accidentally types a few numbers too much when typing it into Excel, that's how far we are removed from the runner up), and in general the amount of information the government has on every citizen is staggering (e.g. the age at which you first grew pubes (!) ). At Schiphol you are searched at will - a few years ago I was on a flight back from the Caribbean and everybody on the plane was searched - thoroughly, more intense than when you are searched e.g. at sports events. Every city has autonomous authority to designate certain areas as 'search at will' areas - police can (and will), without cause, search you and your belongings (including your car - US doctrine about the car being an extension of a man's house? Hahaha, yeah, in the sense that it doesn't take much to search your house, either...). Most train stations are such zones, but most of the city centers of the bigger cities are, too (let that sink in - there a whole city center where police, without any cause, can search you and your belongings!) Oh, not carrying ID (anywhere)? €90 fine, and you can be taken into custody until you have proven your identity. No cause necessary for asking for it, either. Invading has never been a strategy generally employed here, the Dutch are merchants, war is bad for business (I'm sure there's a fitting Ferengi quote here...) Plus a country the size of a flyspeck on a global map just doesn't generally have the muscle. Look, I still love my country, and for all its flaws it's still the best place on earth to live for me - but let's not kid ourselves, the surveillance state is alive and kicking here, and the 'OMG the terrorists are coming' sentiment is, too.
- willholloway 13y ago
  Fitting Ferengi Quotes: Rule of Acquisition 34: War is good for business. Rule of Acquisition 35: Peace is good for business.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Yes I have visited - only for a week or so and I didn't travel around much. I flew in from London, and didn't notice the cameras etc which I did in the UK. I thought they were bad there. My sarcastic post has had a few very good replies. The disturbing behaviour of the state mentioned by you and others is oddly fascinating. Why do it? On a pure cost versus benefit analysis, how can it possibly be justified? Those that know The Netherlands have radically changed my views over the last week with facts and anecdotes about this. Please keep posting, I for one have been educated.