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Stasi.? Germans are simply shying away from comparing it to the Nazis' unimaginable wet dream because of a very self-conscious sensitivity about the matter. But

by wahsd 13y ago

Stasi.? Germans are simply shying away from comparing it to the Nazis' unimaginable wet dream because of a very self-conscious sensitivity about the matter. But don't fool yourselves, ignoring other unrelated, horrible outcomes that were a consequence of the times, this level of surveillance is by far worse than anything that has ever existed in all of human history. It is tantamount to mind reading, and without a doubt on the exact trail to that outcome.

danbruc 13y ago
When it comes to surveillance the Stasi did a way better job than any NS organisation.
- v0lta 13y ago
  Through sheer manpower however. Because of this, it wasn't a secret that everyone has been watched. That doesn't make it better, but gives it an own taste compared to PRISM.
- sentenza 13y ago
  While I principally agree with you, I must add that _the_ data protection related historical event that impressed me most is how the Nazis used the excellent Dutch census data that fell into their hands to round up the Jews of the Netherlands. I don't know how widespread knowledge of this is (I was taught it in school), but I've heard it brought up a few times in discussions about personal data.
  - rdouble 13y ago
    The Stasi weren't involved with that, as they did not exist until 1950.
    - danbruc 13y ago
      [...] how the Nazis used the excellent Dutch census data [...]
  - jordanb 13y ago
    One reason why though, is that the Gestapo could rely on ordinary Germans to inform on each other. It didn't need a vast network of agents and microphones, it just needed an office to take complaints and detectives to follow up. Unlike the Nazis, who were homegrown, the DDR was a locally administered occupation government backed by a foreign power. It was terrified of its own people and it collapsed the moment the threat of Red Army tanks rolling down the streets quit being credible.
  - dlib 13y ago
    Indeed it was, the resistance movement tried bombed the office keeping the census data in Amsterdam in 1943 since it was so effective for the Nazis. It kept the data of over 70.000 Jews in the Amsterdam. The resistance was active in forging identity cards and having the population registry destroyed meant that there would be nothing to compare the identity cards to. Unfortunately, the bombing only resulted in the destruction of 15% of the data. Many of the resistance fighters involved were executed shortly after.
arianvanp 13y ago
You're confusing WWII germany and post WWII germany. Stasi was the ministry for homeland security of East-Germany in the post-WWII era untill the fall of the wall (1950- 1989). It has nothing to do with the Nazis (1930ish to 1945) The Stasi was a way to take hold of the country and get it stable again after the nazi regime fell. Though they did that by turning _EAST_ (not west) germany into a police state.
- ericd 13y ago
  If anyone's interested in learning a bit more about the Stasi, The Lives of Others is a great film about a man who works for the Stasi, tasked with spying on some influential people.
  - lbebber 13y ago
    It's a great film, but I've read that it's not an accurate portrayal of the Stasi.
    - pgeorgi 13y ago
      Procedures differed somewhat and a Stasi officer wouldn't have had the operational freedom depicted in the movie (that is, his colleagues very likely would have caught him). The story is one of those unrealistic "protagonist acts against all odds and succeeds" that make up a good movie, but the backdrop (Stasi's - sometimes not very - subtle omnipresence and the fear this evokes in society) is painfully realistic.
    - ericd 13y ago
      Ah yeah, it's definitely not a documentary, sorry I was unclear. Pgeorgi has it right - I meant that it was interesting more from the standpoint of what having something like the Stasi around does to people.
pekk 13y ago
If what is happening today is worse than anything ever, including the Holocaust you are referring to, then where are the facilities where the US is slaughtering women and children of ethnic minorities in order to eliminate them from the earth?
- sciurus 13y ago
  I'm almost positive that the comment you're replying to meant "this is the worst level of surveillance ever", not "this surveillance is worse than anything ever".

by wahsd 13y ago

danbruc 13y ago

When it comes to surveillance the Stasi did a way better job than any NS organisation.

v0lta 13y ago
Through sheer manpower however. Because of this, it wasn't a secret that everyone has been watched. That doesn't make it better, but gives it an own taste compared to PRISM.
sentenza 13y ago
While I principally agree with you, I must add that _the_ data protection related historical event that impressed me most is how the Nazis used the excellent Dutch census data that fell into their hands to round up the Jews of the Netherlands. I don't know how widespread knowledge of this is (I was taught it in school), but I've heard it brought up a few times in discussions about personal data.
- rdouble 13y ago
  The Stasi weren't involved with that, as they did not exist until 1950.
  - danbruc 13y ago
    [...] how the Nazis used the excellent Dutch census data [...]
- jordanb 13y ago
  One reason why though, is that the Gestapo could rely on ordinary Germans to inform on each other. It didn't need a vast network of agents and microphones, it just needed an office to take complaints and detectives to follow up. Unlike the Nazis, who were homegrown, the DDR was a locally administered occupation government backed by a foreign power. It was terrified of its own people and it collapsed the moment the threat of Red Army tanks rolling down the streets quit being credible.
- dlib 13y ago
  Indeed it was, the resistance movement tried bombed the office keeping the census data in Amsterdam in 1943 since it was so effective for the Nazis. It kept the data of over 70.000 Jews in the Amsterdam. The resistance was active in forging identity cards and having the population registry destroyed meant that there would be nothing to compare the identity cards to. Unfortunately, the bombing only resulted in the destruction of 15% of the data. Many of the resistance fighters involved were executed shortly after.

arianvanp 13y ago

You're confusing WWII germany and post WWII germany. Stasi was the ministry for homeland security of East-Germany in the post-WWII era untill the fall of the wall (1950- 1989). It has nothing to do with the Nazis (1930ish to 1945) The Stasi was a way to take hold of the country and get it stable again after the nazi regime fell. Though they did that by turning _EAST_ (not west) germany into a police state.

ericd 13y ago
If anyone's interested in learning a bit more about the Stasi, The Lives of Others is a great film about a man who works for the Stasi, tasked with spying on some influential people.
- lbebber 13y ago
  It's a great film, but I've read that it's not an accurate portrayal of the Stasi.
  - pgeorgi 13y ago
    Procedures differed somewhat and a Stasi officer wouldn't have had the operational freedom depicted in the movie (that is, his colleagues very likely would have caught him). The story is one of those unrealistic "protagonist acts against all odds and succeeds" that make up a good movie, but the backdrop (Stasi's - sometimes not very - subtle omnipresence and the fear this evokes in society) is painfully realistic.
  - ericd 13y ago
    Ah yeah, it's definitely not a documentary, sorry I was unclear. Pgeorgi has it right - I meant that it was interesting more from the standpoint of what having something like the Stasi around does to people.

pekk 13y ago

If what is happening today is worse than anything ever, including the Holocaust you are referring to, then where are the facilities where the US is slaughtering women and children of ethnic minorities in order to eliminate them from the earth?

sciurus 13y ago
I'm almost positive that the comment you're replying to meant "this is the worst level of surveillance ever", not "this surveillance is worse than anything ever".