6 ms·

Summary: Lawyer conversing with client accused of terrorism, via private Facebook messages. Client's messages suddenly deleted as "spam", and 4 days later the

by Deestan 13y ago

Summary: Lawyer conversing with client accused of terrorism, via private Facebook messages. Client's messages suddenly deleted as "spam", and 4 days later the lawyer was notified that his US Visa had been revoked.

oellegaard 13y ago
Not deleted as spam, rather marked as "spam or offensive content", basically flagged inappropriate for facebook.
- katbyte 13y ago
  So private conversations i have on facebook can be "flagged inappropriate"? And thus likely checked over by a real human? forget the NSA, why should anyone aside for me and who i'm talking to be able to flag (and likely checked by a human) private messages? Private messages on facebook are well, not private it seems.
  - anologwintermut 13y ago
    This is a company that allegedly had a master password allowing employees to snoop on profiles. Moreover, the Terms of Service almost certainly say there is automated and human monitoring of messaging. Why would anyone in their right mind conduct privileged conversations using it?
    - katbyte 13y ago
      I did not know this, no allegedly about it. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/25/facebook-master-password_n_1625474.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/25/facebook-master-pas...) but they did away with it "in favor of other, more secure forms of logging in to repair accounts"
  - scott_s 13y ago
    And thus likely checked over by a real human? That's a logical leap, I think. I can easily imagine passing private messages through a Bayesian filter to catch "inappropriate" messages, without needing human intervention. But, yes, if you are using a third-party service to communicate in plain-text, there is no such thing as "private."
  - taproot 13y ago
    > Private messages on facebook are well, not private it seems. News to.. you apparently?
    - katbyte 13y ago
      yea kinda, i expected law enforcement/government to be able to get the chat history, but not that something could be flagged for inappropriate content and then possibly checked by a human. Makes me wonder just how many times has something been flagged, checked by a human, and then not removed and your non the wiser that someone has just read your message
      - taproot 13y ago
        Do you regularly send inappropriate private messages to your friends? If you've got nothing to hide...
        katbyte 13y ago
        yes. They are my friends, there are no real limits on what we discuss. and define inappropriate. I could be talking about health, sex, relationships, business, inventions, inside jokes and the list of normal appropriate topics that i wouldn't want other people reading goes on.
  - spinlock 13y ago
    Private messages on facebook are well, owned by facebook. In the future, hire a lawyer competent enough to read facebook's TOS.
    - blaabjerg 13y ago
      To be fair, being able to understand Facebook's TOS is not sufficient to be able to set up and use a properly encrypted communications channel. Not everyone is as tech savvy as you are.
smartician 13y ago
In other words: A Norwegian lawyer notices something weird going on with his private Facebook messages, and four days after this, his visa gets revoked. Later, after reading about PRISM in the morning newspaper, he's convinced that the NSA has been spying on him. It's obvious! After all, spy rule #1 is "make sure your subject knows he's being spied on by marking his messages as 'infringing or spam'". And it's totally impossible that the visa thing coincided with this.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  Twice in my life I have noticed things that made me wonder. The first time I currently think was in my imagination. This time I am not so sure. I am noticing for example a cell phone whose battery level drops when connected to the charger and not in airplane mode. Google chat messages apparently long delayed. That this started after the Snowden leak makes it even more suspicious to me. I am an American citizen residing abroad. I could just be seeing things that aren't there. However as a vocal opponent of this sort of surveillance, it would make sense that I would be caught up in some sort of filter especially as the hunt for Snowden continues. (So note: If you are listening I think you might be. I am a patriot, as I believe Snowden is. I have not provided any active assistance for him, but I applaud those who do. My wife thinks I am too political but at some point my loyalty to my country, the United States, compels me to stand up to this sort of thing.)
  - Filligree 13y ago
    Battery levels will drop when connected to the charger - because of code in the battery controller. It's bad for the battery to stay at 100% for any amount of time, so the controller will cycle it in the 95-100% area. Smarter controllers will hide what they're doing. Google chat messages can be delayed for any number of reasons, ranging from internal glitches to "Your network connectivity was bad at the precise moment the message was attempted to be delivered, thrice, and it retries at exponentially longer intervals."
    - einhverfr 13y ago

by Deestan 13y ago

oellegaard 13y ago

Not deleted as spam, rather marked as "spam or offensive content", basically flagged inappropriate for facebook.

katbyte 13y ago
So private conversations i have on facebook can be "flagged inappropriate"? And thus likely checked over by a real human? forget the NSA, why should anyone aside for me and who i'm talking to be able to flag (and likely checked by a human) private messages? Private messages on facebook are well, not private it seems.
- anologwintermut 13y ago
  This is a company that allegedly had a master password allowing employees to snoop on profiles. Moreover, the Terms of Service almost certainly say there is automated and human monitoring of messaging. Why would anyone in their right mind conduct privileged conversations using it?
  - katbyte 13y ago
    I did not know this, no allegedly about it. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/25/facebook-master-password_n_1625474.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/25/facebook-master-pas...) but they did away with it "in favor of other, more secure forms of logging in to repair accounts"
- scott_s 13y ago
  And thus likely checked over by a real human? That's a logical leap, I think. I can easily imagine passing private messages through a Bayesian filter to catch "inappropriate" messages, without needing human intervention. But, yes, if you are using a third-party service to communicate in plain-text, there is no such thing as "private."
- taproot 13y ago
  > Private messages on facebook are well, not private it seems. News to.. you apparently?
  - katbyte 13y ago
    yea kinda, i expected law enforcement/government to be able to get the chat history, but not that something could be flagged for inappropriate content and then possibly checked by a human. Makes me wonder just how many times has something been flagged, checked by a human, and then not removed and your non the wiser that someone has just read your message
    - taproot 13y ago
      Do you regularly send inappropriate private messages to your friends? If you've got nothing to hide...
      - katbyte 13y ago
        yes. They are my friends, there are no real limits on what we discuss. and define inappropriate. I could be talking about health, sex, relationships, business, inventions, inside jokes and the list of normal appropriate topics that i wouldn't want other people reading goes on.
- spinlock 13y ago
  Private messages on facebook are well, owned by facebook. In the future, hire a lawyer competent enough to read facebook's TOS.
  - blaabjerg 13y ago
    To be fair, being able to understand Facebook's TOS is not sufficient to be able to set up and use a properly encrypted communications channel. Not everyone is as tech savvy as you are.

smartician 13y ago

In other words: A Norwegian lawyer notices something weird going on with his private Facebook messages, and four days after this, his visa gets revoked. Later, after reading about PRISM in the morning newspaper, he's convinced that the NSA has been spying on him. It's obvious! After all, spy rule #1 is "make sure your subject knows he's being spied on by marking his messages as 'infringing or spam'". And it's totally impossible that the visa thing coincided with this.

einhverfr 13y ago
Twice in my life I have noticed things that made me wonder. The first time I currently think was in my imagination. This time I am not so sure. I am noticing for example a cell phone whose battery level drops when connected to the charger and not in airplane mode. Google chat messages apparently long delayed. That this started after the Snowden leak makes it even more suspicious to me. I am an American citizen residing abroad. I could just be seeing things that aren't there. However as a vocal opponent of this sort of surveillance, it would make sense that I would be caught up in some sort of filter especially as the hunt for Snowden continues. (So note: If you are listening I think you might be. I am a patriot, as I believe Snowden is. I have not provided any active assistance for him, but I applaud those who do. My wife thinks I am too political but at some point my loyalty to my country, the United States, compels me to stand up to this sort of thing.)
- Filligree 13y ago
  Battery levels will drop when connected to the charger - because of code in the battery controller. It's bad for the battery to stay at 100% for any amount of time, so the controller will cycle it in the 95-100% area. Smarter controllers will hide what they're doing. Google chat messages can be delayed for any number of reasons, ranging from internal glitches to "Your network connectivity was bad at the precise moment the message was attempted to be delivered, thrice, and it retries at exponentially longer intervals."
  - einhverfr 13y ago