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I've heard the blackmail angle on this whole thing as a recurring thought experiment, but I'm not sure that it works out that well in practice. First, while th

I've heard the blackmail angle on this whole thing as a recurring thought experiment, but I'm not sure that it works out that well in practice. First, while the whole data collection capability was fairly secret, attempting any blackmail comes with a big risk that they'd pick the wrong person, one who doesn't feel that the cost is worth it and decides to try to make a buck spilling to the public what they are trying to do. Maybe they could cover one or two of those up, but I have to think that after even just a few failed blackmail attempts, they either have a large body count or enough evidence that people decide that these reports have some fact behind them. At that point, it seems to me to come rather quickly to two choices, public outrage that results in repeal of those acts, or total dictatorship where the public outrage is stifled and ignored. It is a little different now that the secret is starting to slip out of the bag, but the end game still seems to be pretty much the same to me. They say it is okay because they aren't abusing the data in this manner and they won't do it. If they try to start abusing the data and blackmailing / recruiting, etc. Then again, the failed attempts lead to a body count or eventually incontrovertible proof that they are abusing the power. Please note that I'm not endorsing their collection or use of this data in any way. I abhor it. I am just not certain that the whole blackmail of any random person they want can really play out well.

graycat 13y ago
Seems to me that a blackmail operation would be fairly easy: First, get the data from the NSA, IRS, Treasury, etc. Second, find someone where the data shows that they have been doing something they don't want to become public. Third, go to that person and "make them an offer they can't refuse". The offer? Sure: become an informant, become a mole, do some dirty work, say, hand over some data, get some dirt on someone else. The "can't refuse" part? Fairly easy: The government doesn't have to release the embarrassing data directly. Instead, the government could just have someone, maybe anonymously, give some 'tips' to some local, dirty politicians or some reporters looking for a scandal and then just let them follow the person, get the data themselves, and then go public. Or, if prominent citizen Joe is a political opponent of an Administration, then poor Joe would have to be 100% totally clean of anything embarrassing or questionable or he could get some nearly anonymous communications that he might want to cool down, back off, and get on the team of the Administration. The blackmailing doesn't have to be for money. A big thing about blackmail is that the victim very much does not want to go public, not even after they are being blackmailed. Blackmail is a very old game and works very well, and mostly all that is needed to have a victim is someone who has a secret they very much don't want to have made public that some potential blackmailer knows, and that situation applies to a large fraction of the population. Remember the old exchange: "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about." with the response "Nearly everyone has something to hide." With the Verizon data, IRS data, and financial record data, have a good shot at blackmailing any of a significant fraction of the whole population. As many dictatorships have shown, with such efforts, can have a large fraction of the population under the thumb of the dictatorship acting as informants, moles, etc. in the population. It can all be close to mafia techniques: A low level mafia guy who has done something illegal then has to remain loyal to the family or face the police for his crime. So, early in a blackmail attempt, get the victim to do something illegal, and then forever threaten to turn them over to the police. Again, it's all very old stuff, and the Verizon data, IRS data, and financial data could enable oceans of it.
smacktoward 13y ago
Blackmail is a classic tool intelligence agencies use to "turn" people into "assets" who will participate in their operations, precisely because it covers itself up. Imagine someone comes to your door and produces materials that could destroy your life. Even if you want to call their bluff, are you really going to run to the local TV news and tell them the story? You'd be destroying your life just as thoroughly as the blackmailer threatened to. It takes a lot of courage to own up to something that could wreck you; more courage than most people have.

graycat 13y ago

Seems to me that a blackmail operation would be fairly easy: First, get the data from the NSA, IRS, Treasury, etc. Second, find someone where the data shows that they have been doing something they don't want to become public. Third, go to that person and "make them an offer they can't refuse". The offer? Sure: become an informant, become a mole, do some dirty work, say, hand over some data, get some dirt on someone else. The "can't refuse" part? Fairly easy: The government doesn't have to release the embarrassing data directly. Instead, the government could just have someone, maybe anonymously, give some 'tips' to some local, dirty politicians or some reporters looking for a scandal and then just let them follow the person, get the data themselves, and then go public. Or, if prominent citizen Joe is a political opponent of an Administration, then poor Joe would have to be 100% totally clean of anything embarrassing or questionable or he could get some nearly anonymous communications that he might want to cool down, back off, and get on the team of the Administration. The blackmailing doesn't have to be for money. A big thing about blackmail is that the victim very much does not want to go public, not even after they are being blackmailed. Blackmail is a very old game and works very well, and mostly all that is needed to have a victim is someone who has a secret they very much don't want to have made public that some potential blackmailer knows, and that situation applies to a large fraction of the population. Remember the old exchange: "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about." with the response "Nearly everyone has something to hide." With the Verizon data, IRS data, and financial record data, have a good shot at blackmailing any of a significant fraction of the whole population. As many dictatorships have shown, with such efforts, can have a large fraction of the population under the thumb of the dictatorship acting as informants, moles, etc. in the population. It can all be close to mafia techniques: A low level mafia guy who has done something illegal then has to remain loyal to the family or face the police for his crime. So, early in a blackmail attempt, get the victim to do something illegal, and then forever threaten to turn them over to the police. Again, it's all very old stuff, and the Verizon data, IRS data, and financial data could enable oceans of it.

smacktoward 13y ago

Blackmail is a classic tool intelligence agencies use to "turn" people into "assets" who will participate in their operations, precisely because it covers itself up. Imagine someone comes to your door and produces materials that could destroy your life. Even if you want to call their bluff, are you really going to run to the local TV news and tell them the story? You'd be destroying your life just as thoroughly as the blackmailer threatened to. It takes a lot of courage to own up to something that could wreck you; more courage than most people have.