6 ms·

I don't understand this obsession with complaining about copying or imitating in design. As long as good things are taken and worse things are left behind, the

I don't understand this obsession with complaining about copying or imitating in design. As long as good things are taken and worse things are left behind, the consumers benefit. It's like being upset that the 2014 cars have the same steering wheel and pedal layout, or that a manufacturer "stole" the idea of using a USB port in a car.

hawleyal 13y ago
No, it's like someone having a good idea, and someone else saying it was theirs.
- myko 13y ago
  When did this happen?
  - dirkgently 13y ago
    When Apple patented Rounded Corners(TM)(R)(C) and declared it to be theirs.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - Volpe 13y ago
      When did this happen? Or did you mean when they took out a design patent for a touch screen device of iPad like dimensions with very specific rounding on their corners that is reflected in the rest of their product line as well. I'm pretty sure, that particular patent of Apple's is EXACTLY what design patents were invented for. Disclaimer: I don't believe in the patent system at all, but the system exists, so the players play it.
jspark 13y ago
Different people have different reasons for idolizing Apple, and one would be its role in the past half decade as the innovator, the leader, or the envelope-pusher. Taking cues from other companies' products goes against the refreshing originality we've enjoyed from Apple so much. Disclaimer: I'm not saying I personally agree or even think this viewpoint is entirely true; just offering some insight.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
dman 13y ago
http://gigaom.com/2005/09/20/redmond-start-your-photocopiers/ http://gigaom.com/2005/09/20/redmond-start-your-photocopiers... I dont get where people got this obsession from either.
antimatter 13y ago
Great post. This is what I keep thinking. I couldn't care less about these companies copying each other. If it benefits me as the user, then let them sue each other into oblivion or make any marketing claim about being innovative. Why do people take these things so personally?
tolmasky 13y ago
I can't speak for other people, but I can perhaps share some insight from my feelings. Just to get it out of the way, it is a bit annoying to see a company that is normally absolutely obsessed with others copying them now doing the same. But as eyebrow raising as that is, its not really my main concern. My personal issue with this design is that it signals the coming of a boring lull in mobile design. Its the death of distinction. Android, Windows, and iPhone now largely look the same (to me). In fact I think the Windows stuff actually looks better. Its upsetting because there are surely more than just two possible designs ("flat" or "skeuomorphic"). Did iOS need a design overhaul? I don't know (I'm personally of the belief that it was missing key features and services more than a new skin). But if for the sake of argument it did, then this just frankly feels lazy on Apple's part. It was the most obvious direction to go in, and its been done. Aqua and iOS 1 were different, fresh, and represented an original vision for UIs. Even if you didn't like them it provided something to contrast to. This just provides something to compare to :/
- rdouble 13y ago
  After a morning playing with it, it doesn't really look or feel anything like Windows phone to me. I don't have enough experience with Android to offer much in useful commentary, but it doesn't seem like the Nexus 7 I once used. Has anyone put up a side by side compare and contrast against the other mobile OSes yet? I suppose that would be against the dev agreement.
- Finster 13y ago
  I feel like your argument basically distills down to: "All flat designs look alike." Surely, that's not the case. And as I've been messing around with IOS7, I'm noticing a lot more than just a graphical redesign. This is also a usability redesign. Little things like including a contact button at the top of the Messages app itself rather than at the top of the message view. IOS7 is full of these little tweaks that have been standard fare in the jailbreak communities. To boil it down to "a boring lull in mobile design" is to really ignore the quality of the IOS7 redesign.
  - tolmasky 13y ago
jljljl 13y ago
The "Can't quite put my finger on it..." piece is in reference to a common catch-phrase for bloggers who have mocked Android, Samsung, and Microsoft for "copying" elements from iOS. I agree the whole back and forth is a bit silly from both parties. Edit: missed a word
- Steko 13y ago
  "elements from iOS" Frequently seen re: MBA and iMac knock offs as well. It's hilarious and worth pointing out in both directions although I think the popular notion that one cancels out the other is false equivalence.
  - jljljl 13y ago
    I agree that there are situations where the borrowing is much more blatant, and I don't think pointing out influences is a waste of time. Conversations along these lines tend to devolve into flame wars, however.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >The "Can't quite put my finger on it..." piece is in reference to a common catch-phrase for bloggers who have mocked Android, Samsung, and Microsoft for "copying" elements from iOS. Only this is not a copy. It's just a different flat design, just as Windows also uses a flat design. It doesn't copy the look of Windows Phone -- it just uses a similar flat visual language. We cannot say the same for, e.g., MBA look-alikes that you cannot tell apart from 5 feet away. It's like the difference between two manga comics by different artists (of course there are similarities: they used the same visual language) and a cheap rip-off of an animated series (e.g Power Rangers vs Powerful Rangers).
Taylorious 13y ago
I think it has more to do with the particular company. Namely, a company that brags about how original their designs/products and is very sue happy towards anyone who imitates them in the slightest. On top of that, they have a lot of fans who think of Apple as a master of UI and general design (I'm not saying they're wrong) and will associate the design Apple and not the others who spearheaded it. I didn't listen to Apples presentation, so I don't know if they tooted their own horn on this new design scheme, but if I was a designer who had been working on interfaces similar to what Apple is switching to, I would still be pretty pissed off right now. Because, once people switch to iOS 7, the general public will perceive your design as "Apple like" or "Apple inspired."
- shurcooL 13y ago
  I couldn't care less how original or unoriginal something is, I mainly care about how good it is functionally and less so how pleasing it is visually. I wish more people paid attention to that rather than who created what first. All ideas are based on some other ideas to some degree. I guess that's the difference. If Apple implemented something I created in their products, I'd be super happy that my idea is doing well and will benefit more people. I care about the ideas themselves, not about receiving credit.
shurcooL 13y ago
Here's an article that gets me. http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-s-ios-7-copied-everyone-and-s-good-thing http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-s-ios-7-copied-everyone-...
- bennyg 13y ago
  I like when people post a perspective like this. It's a lot more bold than to criticize every single thing. Stay humble, stay happy folks.
- leoc 13y ago
  This Ars Technica piece http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/the-global-influence-of-ios-7s-design-language/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/the-global-influence-of... has a similar piece which is good too, pointing out that the app switcher seems to trace back to WebOS. Actually, the big, high and centred, skinny-lettered and unbordered time display on the lock screen always reminds me of some Sony Xperia lock screens, though maybe that's just me.
mtgx 13y ago
Ideally that would be true - but try to tell that to Apple in 2010, 2011, and 2012.
natmaster 13y ago
There is nothing wrong with it. Unless of course you claim you revolutionized the space with your original designs - which is what Apple and co. do. I simply have a problem with people lying.

hawleyal 13y ago

No, it's like someone having a good idea, and someone else saying it was theirs.

myko 13y ago
When did this happen?
- dirkgently 13y ago
  When Apple patented Rounded Corners(TM)(R)(C) and declared it to be theirs.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - Volpe 13y ago
    When did this happen? Or did you mean when they took out a design patent for a touch screen device of iPad like dimensions with very specific rounding on their corners that is reflected in the rest of their product line as well. I'm pretty sure, that particular patent of Apple's is EXACTLY what design patents were invented for. Disclaimer: I don't believe in the patent system at all, but the system exists, so the players play it.

jspark 13y ago

Different people have different reasons for idolizing Apple, and one would be its role in the past half decade as the innovator, the leader, or the envelope-pusher. Taking cues from other companies' products goes against the refreshing originality we've enjoyed from Apple so much. Disclaimer: I'm not saying I personally agree or even think this viewpoint is entirely true; just offering some insight.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

dman 13y ago

http://gigaom.com/2005/09/20/redmond-start-your-photocopiers/ http://gigaom.com/2005/09/20/redmond-start-your-photocopiers... I dont get where people got this obsession from either.

antimatter 13y ago

Great post. This is what I keep thinking. I couldn't care less about these companies copying each other. If it benefits me as the user, then let them sue each other into oblivion or make any marketing claim about being innovative. Why do people take these things so personally?

tolmasky 13y ago

I can't speak for other people, but I can perhaps share some insight from my feelings. Just to get it out of the way, it is a bit annoying to see a company that is normally absolutely obsessed with others copying them now doing the same. But as eyebrow raising as that is, its not really my main concern. My personal issue with this design is that it signals the coming of a boring lull in mobile design. Its the death of distinction. Android, Windows, and iPhone now largely look the same (to me). In fact I think the Windows stuff actually looks better. Its upsetting because there are surely more than just two possible designs ("flat" or "skeuomorphic"). Did iOS need a design overhaul? I don't know (I'm personally of the belief that it was missing key features and services more than a new skin). But if for the sake of argument it did, then this just frankly feels lazy on Apple's part. It was the most obvious direction to go in, and its been done. Aqua and iOS 1 were different, fresh, and represented an original vision for UIs. Even if you didn't like them it provided something to contrast to. This just provides something to compare to :/

rdouble 13y ago
After a morning playing with it, it doesn't really look or feel anything like Windows phone to me. I don't have enough experience with Android to offer much in useful commentary, but it doesn't seem like the Nexus 7 I once used. Has anyone put up a side by side compare and contrast against the other mobile OSes yet? I suppose that would be against the dev agreement.
Finster 13y ago
I feel like your argument basically distills down to: "All flat designs look alike." Surely, that's not the case. And as I've been messing around with IOS7, I'm noticing a lot more than just a graphical redesign. This is also a usability redesign. Little things like including a contact button at the top of the Messages app itself rather than at the top of the message view. IOS7 is full of these little tweaks that have been standard fare in the jailbreak communities. To boil it down to "a boring lull in mobile design" is to really ignore the quality of the IOS7 redesign.
- tolmasky 13y ago

jljljl 13y ago

The "Can't quite put my finger on it..." piece is in reference to a common catch-phrase for bloggers who have mocked Android, Samsung, and Microsoft for "copying" elements from iOS. I agree the whole back and forth is a bit silly from both parties. Edit: missed a word

Steko 13y ago
"elements from iOS" Frequently seen re: MBA and iMac knock offs as well. It's hilarious and worth pointing out in both directions although I think the popular notion that one cancels out the other is false equivalence.
- jljljl 13y ago
  I agree that there are situations where the borrowing is much more blatant, and I don't think pointing out influences is a waste of time. Conversations along these lines tend to devolve into flame wars, however.
coldtea 13y ago
>The "Can't quite put my finger on it..." piece is in reference to a common catch-phrase for bloggers who have mocked Android, Samsung, and Microsoft for "copying" elements from iOS. Only this is not a copy. It's just a different flat design, just as Windows also uses a flat design. It doesn't copy the look of Windows Phone -- it just uses a similar flat visual language. We cannot say the same for, e.g., MBA look-alikes that you cannot tell apart from 5 feet away. It's like the difference between two manga comics by different artists (of course there are similarities: they used the same visual language) and a cheap rip-off of an animated series (e.g Power Rangers vs Powerful Rangers).

Taylorious 13y ago

I think it has more to do with the particular company. Namely, a company that brags about how original their designs/products and is very sue happy towards anyone who imitates them in the slightest. On top of that, they have a lot of fans who think of Apple as a master of UI and general design (I'm not saying they're wrong) and will associate the design Apple and not the others who spearheaded it. I didn't listen to Apples presentation, so I don't know if they tooted their own horn on this new design scheme, but if I was a designer who had been working on interfaces similar to what Apple is switching to, I would still be pretty pissed off right now. Because, once people switch to iOS 7, the general public will perceive your design as "Apple like" or "Apple inspired."

shurcooL 13y ago
I couldn't care less how original or unoriginal something is, I mainly care about how good it is functionally and less so how pleasing it is visually. I wish more people paid attention to that rather than who created what first. All ideas are based on some other ideas to some degree. I guess that's the difference. If Apple implemented something I created in their products, I'd be super happy that my idea is doing well and will benefit more people. I care about the ideas themselves, not about receiving credit.

shurcooL 13y ago

Here's an article that gets me. http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-s-ios-7-copied-everyone-and-s-good-thing http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-s-ios-7-copied-everyone-...

bennyg 13y ago
I like when people post a perspective like this. It's a lot more bold than to criticize every single thing. Stay humble, stay happy folks.
leoc 13y ago
This Ars Technica piece http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/the-global-influence-of-ios-7s-design-language/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/the-global-influence-of... has a similar piece which is good too, pointing out that the app switcher seems to trace back to WebOS. Actually, the big, high and centred, skinny-lettered and unbordered time display on the lock screen always reminds me of some Sony Xperia lock screens, though maybe that's just me.

mtgx 13y ago

Ideally that would be true - but try to tell that to Apple in 2010, 2011, and 2012.

natmaster 13y ago

There is nothing wrong with it. Unless of course you claim you revolutionized the space with your original designs - which is what Apple and co. do. I simply have a problem with people lying.