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As a someone from Europe (Germany), I can say that this whole affair is definitely a public relations disaster for the US over here. In the beginning, I was rea

As a someone from Europe (Germany), I can say that this whole affair is definitely a public relations disaster for the US over here. In the beginning, I was really unsure if regular people who are not members of the tech community would become aware of this or if it was perceived as to much of a niche topic. Well, I guess that question has been answered: Yesterday tagesschau[1], the biggest and most trusted evening television news show carried a short segment about it. Today I read that Merkel herself wants to bring this up at her next meeting with Obama. [1] http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/sendung/ts42578.html http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/sendung/ts42578.html at about 7:30

danmaz74 13y ago
It will be interesting to see the real effects though. How long will people remember about this? How much will it affect their actual choices? The US "brand" overcame so many scandals, I'm not sure this one will be different.
- colin_jack 13y ago
  In terms of the public it will probably be forgotten quickly, politicians probably wont be so forgiving.
  - k-mcgrady 13y ago
    It might be forgotten but I'm sure it will add to the increasingly negative view the rest of the world has of America. It seemed less negative once the Bush administration ended but things like this could restart the negative opinion.
- sentenza 13y ago
  You bring up an interesting point. I would describe the effect of revelations of this kind on people in Germany as a noticeable jump in one direction on a sentiment continuum, if that makes any sense. The generation of currently 25 to 40 year olds here have grown up in an extremely US-influenced cultural environment. Imagine that there is this magically interesting and quite progressive place on earth and they broadcast from there on all TV channels all the time. That's what it was like to grow up in the 90s in Germany. Having grown up with a generally positive view of the US, the Iraq war was a decisive turning point for many people of that (i.e., my) generation. By the time Colin Powell presented his case before the UN, many Germans started to feel betrayed, because it seemed so obvious that an invasion was not the right thing to do (the GOOD GUY became a mere mortal). Older people that were familiar with the political games of the cold war might not have been surprised, but the young people definitely were. Since then for many Germans, the attitude towards the US is quite ambivalent. It is possible that this in some situations leads to unfair highlighting of wrongdoing on part of the US, but I'd say that by and large the effect is primarily that there is now interest in good news and bad news about the US. Add to that, that many Germans feel extremely uneasy about intelligence gathering in general (think STASI), and you have a reason to assume that, at least in Germany, this thing will linger in the hearts and minds for a while. It has to be noted, however, that this also means that the reaction in Germany cannot be generalized to the rest of Europe.
  - danmaz74 13y ago
    What you said could mostly be said about Italy too. Except for the STASI, of course :)
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Agreed that this aspect will be interesting to watch. What I find interesting are that people understand "treason" when someone in the intelligence agency turns over state secrets to foreign powers, but since this guy turned over the secrets to "the people" (I know the Guardian isn't an organ of the citizens of the US but sharing this with US citizens was Snowden's stated intent) it does play more like "whistle blower." Its kind of too bad it came out in an off year for elections though. Next year would have been better in terms of keeping it fresh in peoples minds just before they went to the polls. That said it will be question #1 I'll be asking congressional candidates next year, "What do you intend to do about the overreaching of the Executive Branch and the Intelligence agencies?"
johnchristopher 13y ago
Here in Belgium it's brushed up as an Obama blunder and an american-only problem that only affects social networks (aka facebook). Online press gigles about pictures of Obama looking at computer screens.
- peterjancelis 13y ago
  Actually Bjorn Soenens, the "America watcher" for the largest Flemish television station VRT, went out of his way to say that this is not the political responsibility of Obama. I'm sure this seems strange for Americans reading this, but that's how Belgian state television goes. Bjorn Soenens is somewhere to the left of MSNBC.
  - johnchristopher 13y ago
    My apologies, I should have stated that I was referring to the French speaking[1] on-line press. [1] Actually, the ink and paper press. But on screen. Mainly.
stevoski 13y ago
I'm a New Zealander living in Spain. My circle of acquaintances here seem to be disappointed, frustrated, but not surprised about the recent Prism revelations. I find myself yearning for a non-USA based alternative to Gmail, Facebook, et al, yet am resigned that the alternatives are currently so inferior that I'll stick with the compromised options.
1morepassword 13y ago
Dutch press reported very well... on Merkel's reaction. Our own prime minister however pretends nothing is wrong, despite subsequent leaking from his own intelligence service. And with a wonderful sense of irony he showed up few hours ago next door to our offices at a Google event focused on, wait for it: convincing the government to make better use of the internet... But seriously, it is mainstream news here. Looking at the biggest prime time news show as I type this, major item.

danmaz74 13y ago

It will be interesting to see the real effects though. How long will people remember about this? How much will it affect their actual choices? The US "brand" overcame so many scandals, I'm not sure this one will be different.

colin_jack 13y ago
In terms of the public it will probably be forgotten quickly, politicians probably wont be so forgiving.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  It might be forgotten but I'm sure it will add to the increasingly negative view the rest of the world has of America. It seemed less negative once the Bush administration ended but things like this could restart the negative opinion.
sentenza 13y ago
You bring up an interesting point. I would describe the effect of revelations of this kind on people in Germany as a noticeable jump in one direction on a sentiment continuum, if that makes any sense. The generation of currently 25 to 40 year olds here have grown up in an extremely US-influenced cultural environment. Imagine that there is this magically interesting and quite progressive place on earth and they broadcast from there on all TV channels all the time. That's what it was like to grow up in the 90s in Germany. Having grown up with a generally positive view of the US, the Iraq war was a decisive turning point for many people of that (i.e., my) generation. By the time Colin Powell presented his case before the UN, many Germans started to feel betrayed, because it seemed so obvious that an invasion was not the right thing to do (the GOOD GUY became a mere mortal). Older people that were familiar with the political games of the cold war might not have been surprised, but the young people definitely were. Since then for many Germans, the attitude towards the US is quite ambivalent. It is possible that this in some situations leads to unfair highlighting of wrongdoing on part of the US, but I'd say that by and large the effect is primarily that there is now interest in good news and bad news about the US. Add to that, that many Germans feel extremely uneasy about intelligence gathering in general (think STASI), and you have a reason to assume that, at least in Germany, this thing will linger in the hearts and minds for a while. It has to be noted, however, that this also means that the reaction in Germany cannot be generalized to the rest of Europe.
- danmaz74 13y ago
  What you said could mostly be said about Italy too. Except for the STASI, of course :)
ChuckMcM 13y ago
Agreed that this aspect will be interesting to watch. What I find interesting are that people understand "treason" when someone in the intelligence agency turns over state secrets to foreign powers, but since this guy turned over the secrets to "the people" (I know the Guardian isn't an organ of the citizens of the US but sharing this with US citizens was Snowden's stated intent) it does play more like "whistle blower." Its kind of too bad it came out in an off year for elections though. Next year would have been better in terms of keeping it fresh in peoples minds just before they went to the polls. That said it will be question #1 I'll be asking congressional candidates next year, "What do you intend to do about the overreaching of the Executive Branch and the Intelligence agencies?"

johnchristopher 13y ago

Here in Belgium it's brushed up as an Obama blunder and an american-only problem that only affects social networks (aka facebook). Online press gigles about pictures of Obama looking at computer screens.

peterjancelis 13y ago
Actually Bjorn Soenens, the "America watcher" for the largest Flemish television station VRT, went out of his way to say that this is not the political responsibility of Obama. I'm sure this seems strange for Americans reading this, but that's how Belgian state television goes. Bjorn Soenens is somewhere to the left of MSNBC.
- johnchristopher 13y ago
  My apologies, I should have stated that I was referring to the French speaking[1] on-line press. [1] Actually, the ink and paper press. But on screen. Mainly.

stevoski 13y ago

I'm a New Zealander living in Spain. My circle of acquaintances here seem to be disappointed, frustrated, but not surprised about the recent Prism revelations. I find myself yearning for a non-USA based alternative to Gmail, Facebook, et al, yet am resigned that the alternatives are currently so inferior that I'll stick with the compromised options.

1morepassword 13y ago

Dutch press reported very well... on Merkel's reaction. Our own prime minister however pretends nothing is wrong, despite subsequent leaking from his own intelligence service. And with a wonderful sense of irony he showed up few hours ago next door to our offices at a Google event focused on, wait for it: convincing the government to make better use of the internet... But seriously, it is mainstream news here. Looking at the biggest prime time news show as I type this, major item.