4 ms·

A few points: 1. I don't like that this is being said about Edward Snowden, but Occam's Razor implies it's not necessarily a conspiracy (yet). I'm sure it will

A few points: 1. I don't like that this is being said about Edward Snowden, but Occam's Razor implies it's not necessarily a conspiracy (yet). I'm sure it will be, at some point, but as a software engineer who made it without a college degree, I can personally attest that it's not unnatural for people to bring up and question a lack of education. People love to do this - before I was making any real progress in engineering, and even after I succeeded, people thought it was unusual and strange that I didn't pursue a degree. The only people exempt from this are people like Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, David Karp, et al. 2. On citing use of the "fallacy" ad hominem - just stop. You're not doing it properly. Yes, the literal definition means bringing in personal qualities, but personal qualities and background can be relevant. Just as the appeal to authority is not a fallacy if you cite a legitimate expert with established research, it is OK and legitimate to question a high school dropout's ability to understand what he leaked. This should be self-evident - the person is being questioned because they don't have an obvious legitimatization of their expertise. That said, I don't agree with the fact being explored more than the leaked information itself. I'd also like to note that you don't sound any more convincing to people because you just say "ad hominem" - it makes people defensive, causes an audience to think you're pompous (sometimes) and conditions you to try and rebut an entire argument by citing a fallacy and ignoring the substance - which is a method that tends to fail utterly. For more on this, see [1]. 3. Finally, it is sad they're talking about his neighbors and school life so much. They have nothing else to go on and they're grasping at straws. It sounds arrogant to say, but that's what most people do. They react to a big crisis and their fear of the unknown causes them to grasp ar any conversation points they can, legitimate or otherwise. The community of people who recognize this (i.e. Hacker News for one) would benefit from being in a position to correct this mentality and steer the conversation towards the hard issues - the things that really matter. Dump all that shit about his high school diploma, let's start talking about the NSA. [1]: http://plover.net/~bonds/bdksucks.html http://plover.net/~bonds/bdksucks.html

sillysaurus 13y ago
it is OK and legitimate to question a high school dropout's ability to understand what he leaked. This is mistaken. A CS graduate isn't necessarily any more competent than a given highschool dropout working in engineering is necessarily incompetent.
- dylangs1030 13y ago
  Yes, I know, we've all read Jeff Atwood's article on it. That's not my point. I get what you're saying, but we have informed opinions. To the public, with no technical background, it is very reasonable to question someone's opinion in a domain they have no certifiable expertise or experience in. EDIT: I can't reply @sillysaurus, "I'm submitting too fast", so here's my reply in the meantime. I know...you're missing my point. It doesn't matter if a college degree or a high school degree gives you the experience I need. I can attest that you don't need one to have expertise in your domain. What I am saying is that the public associates a college degree (and awards, other prestige, etc.) with credibility. To a great extent, this is true in most industries - this is why it's reasonable for non-technical people, people who don't know better, to apply this sort of safeguard to all "experts" they see. It doesn't diminish his actual standing, it's just a cursory glance that tells them if they need to find alternative routes to check his credibility. I'm sorry if I'm not being clear, I'm not trying to say you're regurgitating anything, I was showing you that I'm well aware many CS grads can't code for shit. That's true. But it's not part of what I'm arguing. I'm talking about credibility and public perception, not actual ability or skillset.
  - sillysaurus 13y ago
    we've all read Jeff Atwood's article on it. I haven't. Stop implying that people are merely regurgitating popular opinions on this topic. I speak from experience. To the public, with no technical background, it is very reasonable to question someone's opinion in a domain they have no certifiable expertise or experience in. This is mistaken because a degree in system administration isn't going to give him any depth of knowledge that would let him interpret the slides in a more informed way.
  - sillysaurus 13y ago
    What I am saying is that the public associates a college degree (and awards, other prestige, etc.) with credibility. To a great extent, this is true in most industries - this is why it's reasonable for non-technical people, people who don't know better, to apply this sort of safeguard to all "experts" they see. This is mistaken because a degree in system administration isn't going to give him any depth of knowledge that would let him interpret the leaked slides in a more informed way before he leaked them. Whether the public associates a degree with credibility is irrelevant if they're mistaken. Your original assertion was it is OK and legitimate to question a high school dropout's ability to understand what he leaked. It's not okay, nor is it legitimate, for the mere fact of holding a GED to call into question his ability to think critically. Click "link" to reply.

sillysaurus 13y ago

it is OK and legitimate to question a high school dropout's ability to understand what he leaked. This is mistaken. A CS graduate isn't necessarily any more competent than a given highschool dropout working in engineering is necessarily incompetent.

dylangs1030 13y ago
Yes, I know, we've all read Jeff Atwood's article on it. That's not my point. I get what you're saying, but we have informed opinions. To the public, with no technical background, it is very reasonable to question someone's opinion in a domain they have no certifiable expertise or experience in. EDIT: I can't reply @sillysaurus, "I'm submitting too fast", so here's my reply in the meantime. I know...you're missing my point. It doesn't matter if a college degree or a high school degree gives you the experience I need. I can attest that you don't need one to have expertise in your domain. What I am saying is that the public associates a college degree (and awards, other prestige, etc.) with credibility. To a great extent, this is true in most industries - this is why it's reasonable for non-technical people, people who don't know better, to apply this sort of safeguard to all "experts" they see. It doesn't diminish his actual standing, it's just a cursory glance that tells them if they need to find alternative routes to check his credibility. I'm sorry if I'm not being clear, I'm not trying to say you're regurgitating anything, I was showing you that I'm well aware many CS grads can't code for shit. That's true. But it's not part of what I'm arguing. I'm talking about credibility and public perception, not actual ability or skillset.
- sillysaurus 13y ago
  we've all read Jeff Atwood's article on it. I haven't. Stop implying that people are merely regurgitating popular opinions on this topic. I speak from experience. To the public, with no technical background, it is very reasonable to question someone's opinion in a domain they have no certifiable expertise or experience in. This is mistaken because a degree in system administration isn't going to give him any depth of knowledge that would let him interpret the slides in a more informed way.
- sillysaurus 13y ago
  What I am saying is that the public associates a college degree (and awards, other prestige, etc.) with credibility. To a great extent, this is true in most industries - this is why it's reasonable for non-technical people, people who don't know better, to apply this sort of safeguard to all "experts" they see. This is mistaken because a degree in system administration isn't going to give him any depth of knowledge that would let him interpret the leaked slides in a more informed way before he leaked them. Whether the public associates a degree with credibility is irrelevant if they're mistaken. Your original assertion was it is OK and legitimate to question a high school dropout's ability to understand what he leaked. It's not okay, nor is it legitimate, for the mere fact of holding a GED to call into question his ability to think critically. Click "link" to reply.