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From Atlas Shrugged: “Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. [...] There’s no way to rule innocen

From Atlas Shrugged: “Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. [...] There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”

jacquesm 13y ago
It may help to remember here that Ayn Rand wrote that stuff as an ex-citizen of a country with a communist regime that employed exactly those tactics against their citizens, I highly doubt that she intended or foresaw those words to be used against the rulers of the country that she chose to live in.
- reneherse 13y ago
  But then, she also wrote Atlas Shrugged as a kind of warning, with the hope that we would not become the kind of regime she fled. The OP is exactly apropos.
  - fexl 13y ago
    That's right, and it was set in America.
- noarchy 13y ago
  The context you've mentioned is important. I'm not a fan of Rand's overall philosophy (sympathetic to parts of it, perhaps, but that's not terribly important), but surely one can appreciate this quote in the appropriate context, even if they reject the greater body of her work.
- pietro 13y ago
  Atlas Shrugged is set in the United States. I'm sure she wouldn't be surprised.
ubernostrum 13y ago
Since posting this quote is apparently now a thing that happens in practically every HN thread, I will take the opportunity to repost this reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5708196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5708196
- venomsnake 13y ago
  This is not Ayn Rand quote per se. In a sense that was public secret for anyone living in Eastern Europe at the time - got a few relatives that made a few trips to the concentration camps. That if you got authorities attention there would be more than enough crimes on which to convict you.
- crusso 13y ago
  Jeez, it took you all of three sentences to get "Self-centered philosophies" in there in your hate-on for the economic portion of Rand's philosophy. This thread and the quote to which you responded are really about the creation of criminals by those in power through the manipulation of arbitrary law.
- Uchikoma 13y ago
  Not sure what your rant against Rand has to to with the quote in this context? Whenever someone uses "alea iacta est" to make a point, it's usually not the case to discuss Julius Caesar.
- squozzer 13y ago
  The humor in your reply is that many non-Randians -- especially people in government -- see themselves as essential to society, and give themselves additional power and prestige on that basis.
flyinRyan 13y ago
Like everything else Rand ever did, this was expressed better by other sources. Can we please stop quoting this hack [1]? [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/15r6sj/why_is_ayn_rands_objectivism_looked_down_upon_by/c7p25fs http://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/15r6sj/why_is...
- skaevola 13y ago
  That post has no relevance. Ideas are what matter, not people.
  - flyinRyan 13y ago
    So stop quoting Rand. Quote the ideas in their original and better articulated form.
    - skaevola 13y ago
      That's not the way it works. I'll quote whoever I want, whenever I find their articulation of ideas interesting. It's intellectually bankrupt to ignore a person's ideas just because you don't like them.
- Zimahl 13y ago
  Yes, please! I get tired of quotes from fiction. Aren't there enough non-fiction quotes in the world that are much more relevant?
stygiansonic 13y ago
Reminds me of the quote, "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."
- Perceval 13y ago
  "And now bills were passed, not only for national objects but for individual cases, and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt." —Tacitus, Annals, Book III, 27.
  - stygiansonic 13y ago
    Yes indeed - a more accurate translation, and with more relevant context.

jacquesm 13y ago

It may help to remember here that Ayn Rand wrote that stuff as an ex-citizen of a country with a communist regime that employed exactly those tactics against their citizens, I highly doubt that she intended or foresaw those words to be used against the rulers of the country that she chose to live in.

reneherse 13y ago
But then, she also wrote Atlas Shrugged as a kind of warning, with the hope that we would not become the kind of regime she fled. The OP is exactly apropos.
- fexl 13y ago
  That's right, and it was set in America.
noarchy 13y ago
The context you've mentioned is important. I'm not a fan of Rand's overall philosophy (sympathetic to parts of it, perhaps, but that's not terribly important), but surely one can appreciate this quote in the appropriate context, even if they reject the greater body of her work.
pietro 13y ago
Atlas Shrugged is set in the United States. I'm sure she wouldn't be surprised.

ubernostrum 13y ago

Since posting this quote is apparently now a thing that happens in practically every HN thread, I will take the opportunity to repost this reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5708196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5708196

venomsnake 13y ago
This is not Ayn Rand quote per se. In a sense that was public secret for anyone living in Eastern Europe at the time - got a few relatives that made a few trips to the concentration camps. That if you got authorities attention there would be more than enough crimes on which to convict you.
crusso 13y ago
Jeez, it took you all of three sentences to get "Self-centered philosophies" in there in your hate-on for the economic portion of Rand's philosophy. This thread and the quote to which you responded are really about the creation of criminals by those in power through the manipulation of arbitrary law.
Uchikoma 13y ago
Not sure what your rant against Rand has to to with the quote in this context? Whenever someone uses "alea iacta est" to make a point, it's usually not the case to discuss Julius Caesar.
squozzer 13y ago
The humor in your reply is that many non-Randians -- especially people in government -- see themselves as essential to society, and give themselves additional power and prestige on that basis.

flyinRyan 13y ago

Like everything else Rand ever did, this was expressed better by other sources. Can we please stop quoting this hack [1]? [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/15r6sj/why_is_ayn_rands_objectivism_looked_down_upon_by/c7p25fs http://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/15r6sj/why_is...

skaevola 13y ago
That post has no relevance. Ideas are what matter, not people.
- flyinRyan 13y ago
  So stop quoting Rand. Quote the ideas in their original and better articulated form.
  - skaevola 13y ago
    That's not the way it works. I'll quote whoever I want, whenever I find their articulation of ideas interesting. It's intellectually bankrupt to ignore a person's ideas just because you don't like them.
Zimahl 13y ago
Yes, please! I get tired of quotes from fiction. Aren't there enough non-fiction quotes in the world that are much more relevant?

stygiansonic 13y ago

Reminds me of the quote, "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."

Perceval 13y ago
"And now bills were passed, not only for national objects but for individual cases, and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt." —Tacitus, Annals, Book III, 27.
- stygiansonic 13y ago
  Yes indeed - a more accurate translation, and with more relevant context.