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Here's an attempt at a quick translation for those interested. Note that 'De Telegraaf' is a tabloid-y newspaper, and the Algemene Inlichten- en Veiligheidsdien

by inoop 13y ago

Here's an attempt at a quick translation for those interested. Note that 'De Telegraaf' is a tabloid-y newspaper, and the Algemene Inlichten- en Veiligheidsdient (AIVD) is the Dutch secret service. --- Dutch secret services also receive information from the United States' internet wiretapping program, PRISM. When the Algemene Inlichten- en Veiligheidsdient marks an American e-mail address as being suspect, within five minutes everything is known, said an AIVD agent this morning in De Telegraaf. According to the paper the agent was working for the department tasked with monitoring Muslim extremists. According to the agent many companies are actively collaborating in giving access to their data. 'All large commercial internet services are being forced to provide an application with which [secret] services can browse [their data]'. Together these applications make up the American secret service NSA's program for collecting private internet data. 'EVERYTHING IS BEING SHARED BY SKYPE, GOOGLE, AND FACEBOOK' According to the agent Skype refused for years to provide access [to their data], but since it has become property of Microsoft everything is said to be shared, as is the case with Google and Facebook. Last Saturday the leading men of both companies said not to be aware of the internet wiretapping program. Dutch companies are said to cooperate willingly as well. 'When a request comes in one is just given direct access to the data, everything on a silver platter.' When a company does not cooperate, an agent is 'activated' that has access to the information at the company. 'Within companies and organizations, everywhere there are agents that can be activated, who are waiting for an information request.'

jstsch 13y ago
> Note that 'De Telegraaf' is a tabloid-y newspaper Note that although, yes, De Telegraaf is more sensationalist (and less 'left wing') than other Dutch newspapers such as The Volkskrant and NRC, you should not compare them to the NY Post, The Sun or the Daily Mail.
- dirktheman 13y ago
  Actually they compare pretty well to The Sun, which is also a sensationalist tabloid. But NY Post/Daily Mail, they're not!
  - phryk 13y ago
    Isn't the NY Post regularly 'speaking out' on behalf of homeopathy? I think they even had a post about how you should be an anti-vaccer if you're a parent or some bullshit like that…
  - 1morepassword 13y ago
    I hate to defend the Telegraaf, but comparing the Sun to the Telegraaf is like comparing hardcore porn to the SI swimsuit edition. Especially when it comes to issues related to security and intelligence, Telegraaf does some serious investigative journalism.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
mtgx 13y ago
> According to the agent Skype refused for years to provide access [to their data], but since it has become property of Microsoft everything is said to be shared. I bet people won't think I'm so crazy now for posting before that the only reason Microsoft paid the incredible amount of $8.5 billion for Skype (and 2x as much as Google was willing to pay) for no good reason, is because they already knew they were going to make at least half of that money back from NSA: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/12/nsa_offers_billions_for_skype_pwnage/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/12/nsa_offers_billions_... Also this: "Microsoft's patent application for Legal Intercept was filed in 2009, well before the company's $8.5 billion purchase of Skype in May": https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218002/Microsoft_seeks_patent_for_spy_tech_for_Skype https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218002/Microsoft_se... So they were already preparing to make it a spy technology before they even bought it. Microsoft bought Skype in May 2011. Look at the PRISM slide. They adopted PRISM for Skype in June 2011, a whole month after they bought it (in a hurry much?): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/images/prism-slide-5.jpg http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-...
- UnoriginalGuy 13y ago
  Why would anything think you were crazy? That was widely discussed around the acquisition. Then Microsoft completely altered Skype's design (from supernode/P2P to client-server) making it cost a LOT more to maintain while offering no obvious advantages, which more or less confirmed it.
  - frabcus 13y ago
    Where's a reference for it now being client-server? I can't find anything with a quick search.
    - Jasber 13y ago
      I was able to pull up this: http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype-replaces-p2p-supernodes-with-linux-boxes-hosted-by-microsoft/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype-replaces-p2p-s... Quote from Microsoft PR on the change: As part of our ongoing commitment to continually improve the Skype user experience, we developed supernodes which can be located on dedicated servers within secure datacentres. This has not changed the underlying nature of Skype’s peer-to-peer (P2P) architecture, in which supernodes simply allow users to find one another (calls do not pass through supernodes). We believe this approach has immediate performance, scalability and availability benefits for the hundreds of millions of users that make up the Skype community.
smegel 13y ago
I don't get it, why didn't Page, Suckerberg, etc just say "no comment"? Their denials are beginning to look farcical.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  Just to put the other side. Given Snowden's claims, they may well not know. He claims the NSA is so advanced that they routinely break the best encryption available and can literally access anything on the internet. Assuming that is true, the NSA can access your PC at home and get anything they like form it. Have you noticed that happening? Has any one reported it happening? We get incredible third part analysis of the likes for stuxnet, but for this, nothing what so ever. So, we could say Snowden is wrong or lying. Or, we could say the NSA is so good no one has seen it happen and hasn't analyses the attacks. On top of that, how many employees for Google, MS, FB, etc are also working for the US government secretly? Would Page and co know that? So, why would Page and co have any idea their systems are compromised. Apart from responding to legal requests, they may have no idea. On the other other hand, if this were true, I'd expect Page and co to be bright red furious, and I dont see that either. I dont know. I do think it is possible that they didn't know everything. Although, given their reactions, if I had to bet actual money, I'd have to say they did. Their reactions kinda suggest they knew full well.
  - StavrosK 13y ago
    > He claims the NSA is so advanced that they routinely break the best encryption available and can literally access anything on the internet. Do you have a reference/quote for that? That's extremely interesting.
    - k-mcgrady 13y ago
      Not the OP but I believe it's explained in this video interview he did. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-n...
jobstijl 13y ago
https://www.bof.nl/2013/06/11/bits-of-freedom-dutch-spooks-must-stop-use-of-prism/ https://www.bof.nl/2013/06/11/bits-of-freedom-dutch-spooks-m... The press release from bof (dutch organisation like the eff) about this issue.
lazyjones 13y ago
> but since it has become property of Microsoft everything is said to be shared, I wonder what this tells us (or should tell us) about using a Microsoft OS for accessing or storing private/personal/confidential information. TrueCrypt is useless if Microsoft can send you personalized, silent Windows updates at any time and if they unscrupulously opened up Skype as claimed, why would they respect their Windows customers more?

by inoop 13y ago

jstsch 13y ago

> Note that 'De Telegraaf' is a tabloid-y newspaper Note that although, yes, De Telegraaf is more sensationalist (and less 'left wing') than other Dutch newspapers such as The Volkskrant and NRC, you should not compare them to the NY Post, The Sun or the Daily Mail.

dirktheman 13y ago
Actually they compare pretty well to The Sun, which is also a sensationalist tabloid. But NY Post/Daily Mail, they're not!
- phryk 13y ago
  Isn't the NY Post regularly 'speaking out' on behalf of homeopathy? I think they even had a post about how you should be an anti-vaccer if you're a parent or some bullshit like that…
- 1morepassword 13y ago
  I hate to defend the Telegraaf, but comparing the Sun to the Telegraaf is like comparing hardcore porn to the SI swimsuit edition. Especially when it comes to issues related to security and intelligence, Telegraaf does some serious investigative journalism.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]

mtgx 13y ago

> According to the agent Skype refused for years to provide access [to their data], but since it has become property of Microsoft everything is said to be shared. I bet people won't think I'm so crazy now for posting before that the only reason Microsoft paid the incredible amount of $8.5 billion for Skype (and 2x as much as Google was willing to pay) for no good reason, is because they already knew they were going to make at least half of that money back from NSA: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/12/nsa_offers_billions_for_skype_pwnage/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/12/nsa_offers_billions_... Also this: "Microsoft's patent application for Legal Intercept was filed in 2009, well before the company's $8.5 billion purchase of Skype in May": https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218002/Microsoft_seeks_patent_for_spy_tech_for_Skype https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218002/Microsoft_se... So they were already preparing to make it a spy technology before they even bought it. Microsoft bought Skype in May 2011. Look at the PRISM slide. They adopted PRISM for Skype in June 2011, a whole month after they bought it (in a hurry much?): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/images/prism-slide-5.jpg http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-...

UnoriginalGuy 13y ago
Why would anything think you were crazy? That was widely discussed around the acquisition. Then Microsoft completely altered Skype's design (from supernode/P2P to client-server) making it cost a LOT more to maintain while offering no obvious advantages, which more or less confirmed it.
- frabcus 13y ago
  Where's a reference for it now being client-server? I can't find anything with a quick search.
  - Jasber 13y ago
    I was able to pull up this: http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype-replaces-p2p-supernodes-with-linux-boxes-hosted-by-microsoft/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/skype-replaces-p2p-s... Quote from Microsoft PR on the change: As part of our ongoing commitment to continually improve the Skype user experience, we developed supernodes which can be located on dedicated servers within secure datacentres. This has not changed the underlying nature of Skype’s peer-to-peer (P2P) architecture, in which supernodes simply allow users to find one another (calls do not pass through supernodes). We believe this approach has immediate performance, scalability and availability benefits for the hundreds of millions of users that make up the Skype community.

smegel 13y ago

I don't get it, why didn't Page, Suckerberg, etc just say "no comment"? Their denials are beginning to look farcical.

alan_cx 13y ago
Just to put the other side. Given Snowden's claims, they may well not know. He claims the NSA is so advanced that they routinely break the best encryption available and can literally access anything on the internet. Assuming that is true, the NSA can access your PC at home and get anything they like form it. Have you noticed that happening? Has any one reported it happening? We get incredible third part analysis of the likes for stuxnet, but for this, nothing what so ever. So, we could say Snowden is wrong or lying. Or, we could say the NSA is so good no one has seen it happen and hasn't analyses the attacks. On top of that, how many employees for Google, MS, FB, etc are also working for the US government secretly? Would Page and co know that? So, why would Page and co have any idea their systems are compromised. Apart from responding to legal requests, they may have no idea. On the other other hand, if this were true, I'd expect Page and co to be bright red furious, and I dont see that either. I dont know. I do think it is possible that they didn't know everything. Although, given their reactions, if I had to bet actual money, I'd have to say they did. Their reactions kinda suggest they knew full well.
- StavrosK 13y ago
  > He claims the NSA is so advanced that they routinely break the best encryption available and can literally access anything on the internet. Do you have a reference/quote for that? That's extremely interesting.
  - k-mcgrady 13y ago
    Not the OP but I believe it's explained in this video interview he did. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-n...

jobstijl 13y ago

https://www.bof.nl/2013/06/11/bits-of-freedom-dutch-spooks-must-stop-use-of-prism/ https://www.bof.nl/2013/06/11/bits-of-freedom-dutch-spooks-m... The press release from bof (dutch organisation like the eff) about this issue.

lazyjones 13y ago

> but since it has become property of Microsoft everything is said to be shared, I wonder what this tells us (or should tell us) about using a Microsoft OS for accessing or storing private/personal/confidential information. TrueCrypt is useless if Microsoft can send you personalized, silent Windows updates at any time and if they unscrupulously opened up Skype as claimed, why would they respect their Windows customers more?