6 ms·

Dear U.S. Navy, Where are your nuclear subs and what are their missions? Sincerely, Definitely a U.S. citizen

by jfisher 13y ago

hawleyal 13y ago
I don't want to keep secrets of public works from any of you. The people in the govt are there to do things we chose to do for everyone. If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. I don't personally want the launch codes for the missiles, but I want to know who has them, what the policy is for using them, when they are used (each and every time), what was targeted, who was hurt, what the damage was, how much it cost to build them, keep them, use them, and dispose them. The military serves at everyone's behest, not of their own accord.
- jmduke 13y ago
  If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. I'm glad you aren't in the Department of Defense, then. The military serves at everyone's behest, not of their own accord. This is a false dichotomy.
  - hawleyal 13y ago
    You enjoy secret wars in your name, cool. That's not what I would call a functional society. It's not a dichotomy, let alone a false one. Please explain your objection.
    - diek 13y ago
      One of many examples: Project Azorian During the Cold War the Soviets lost a nuclear submarine in international waters. The Soviets couldn't find it, the US (through its network of acoustic listening stations in the oceans) could. There was a multi-year effort to recover the sub, which required an elaborate cover story and operational security. If the Soviets knew what the recovery ship was doing, they would have blown it out of the water. All the secrecy was necessary to protect the mission.
      - hawleyal 13y ago
        The mission to do what exactly, who authorized it, who was running it, how much did it cost, what were the gains, what was the point. Edit: If you need to keep public things that secret, maybe you shouldn't be doing them.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. (shrug)
jleader 13y ago
Why exactly do we still need nuclear subs? I'm not trying to be a troll, or funny. What threat is currently best dealt with by deploying ICBMs in nuclear subs? And why is the money better spent on that than on any other alternative use?
- rayiner 13y ago
  China and Russia.
  - jvm 13y ago
    Are those really not dealt with via ICBMs? Why do we need the capacity to destroy them 20x over within 25 minutes when 1x with 3 hours notice would suffice? It seems like the downside risk of rogue actors or accidents causing a nuclear holocaust far outweighs the benefits of additional weapons at the margin.
    - mbreese 13y ago
      ICBMs don't move around... so they are easily targeted themselves.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      Do you want the information relating to the ICBM's to be public knowledge?
  - shirro 13y ago
    Perhaps on paper. But being a global power gives the US a special relationship with friendly countries as well. The dependency on US military protection subverts the sovereignty of allied nations causing them to harmonise laws on intellectual property, drugs, share intelligence including information about businesses in competition with US ones amongst other things. It is a very advantageous situation for the USA and I think it is wrong to think the only point of being a global superpower is to keep the Russians and Chinese in line. It is as much about maintaining the Empire and keeping the client states in line. Hail Caeser!
  - 13y ago
nullc 13y ago
Avoiding the overuse of classification doesn't automatically mean creating a live feed of all troop motion. You're using a strawman argument here, I think. Knowing the location of the troops months or years ago isn't likely to cause much harm: A competent enemy can probably know all that anyway, if they care to.
jussij 13y ago
They already know where the subs are: Submarine Spotting Now a report in the magazine New Scientist says the probable reason for the action is that the scientists are all study bioluminescent plankton which can reveal the whereabouts of submarines. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/525113.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/525113.stm

Dear U.S. Navy, Where are your nuclear subs and what are their missions? Sincerely, Definitely a U.S. citizen

by jfisher 13y ago

Dear U.S. Navy, Where are your nuclear subs and what are their missions? Sincerely, Definitely a U.S. citizen

I don't want to keep secrets of public works from any of you. The people in the govt are there to do things we chose to do for everyone. If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. I don't personally want the launch codes for the missiles, but I want to know who has them, what the policy is for using them, when they are used (each and every time), what was targeted, who was hurt, what the damage was, how much it cost to build them, keep them, use them, and dispose them. The military serves at everyone's behest, not of their own accord.

jmduke 13y ago
If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. I'm glad you aren't in the Department of Defense, then. The military serves at everyone's behest, not of their own accord. This is a false dichotomy.
- hawleyal 13y ago
  You enjoy secret wars in your name, cool. That's not what I would call a functional society. It's not a dichotomy, let alone a false one. Please explain your objection.
  - diek 13y ago
    One of many examples: Project Azorian During the Cold War the Soviets lost a nuclear submarine in international waters. The Soviets couldn't find it, the US (through its network of acoustic listening stations in the oceans) could. There was a multi-year effort to recover the sub, which required an elaborate cover story and operational security. If the Soviets knew what the recovery ship was doing, they would have blown it out of the water. All the secrecy was necessary to protect the mission.
    - hawleyal 13y ago
      The mission to do what exactly, who authorized it, who was running it, how much did it cost, what were the gains, what was the point. Edit: If you need to keep public things that secret, maybe you shouldn't be doing them.
anigbrowl 13y ago
If it's a problem to know where all the subs are and what they are doing in my name, then I have a problem. (shrug)

jleader 13y ago

Why exactly do we still need nuclear subs? I'm not trying to be a troll, or funny. What threat is currently best dealt with by deploying ICBMs in nuclear subs? And why is the money better spent on that than on any other alternative use?

rayiner 13y ago
China and Russia.
- jvm 13y ago
  Are those really not dealt with via ICBMs? Why do we need the capacity to destroy them 20x over within 25 minutes when 1x with 3 hours notice would suffice? It seems like the downside risk of rogue actors or accidents causing a nuclear holocaust far outweighs the benefits of additional weapons at the margin.
  - mbreese 13y ago
    ICBMs don't move around... so they are easily targeted themselves.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Do you want the information relating to the ICBM's to be public knowledge?
- shirro 13y ago
  Perhaps on paper. But being a global power gives the US a special relationship with friendly countries as well. The dependency on US military protection subverts the sovereignty of allied nations causing them to harmonise laws on intellectual property, drugs, share intelligence including information about businesses in competition with US ones amongst other things. It is a very advantageous situation for the USA and I think it is wrong to think the only point of being a global superpower is to keep the Russians and Chinese in line. It is as much about maintaining the Empire and keeping the client states in line. Hail Caeser!
- 13y ago

nullc 13y ago

Avoiding the overuse of classification doesn't automatically mean creating a live feed of all troop motion. You're using a strawman argument here, I think. Knowing the location of the troops months or years ago isn't likely to cause much harm: A competent enemy can probably know all that anyway, if they care to.

jussij 13y ago

They already know where the subs are: Submarine Spotting Now a report in the magazine New Scientist says the probable reason for the action is that the scientists are all study bioluminescent plankton which can reveal the whereabouts of submarines. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/525113.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/525113.stm