6 ms·

Life on Bitcoin: A Documentary

46 points by austenallred 13y ago

vyrotek 13y ago
I wish them luck. Personally, I think they're going to have a very hard time pulling this off. I'll be keeping a close eye them though since I know the couple. No cheating Austin and Beccy ;)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- Permit 13y ago
  They're not even related...
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
contingencies 13y ago
Congratulations on the marriage! Cool people.
joshmlewis 13y ago
They do seem nice, but basically you're asking me to donate to a fund that is basically your wedding gift and you get to buy things and go on trips with the money me and everyone else gave you and yes you will have a difficult time, you still get the experience and at any time Bitcoins could crash or you could cash all of them in.
- socialist_coder 13y ago
  I don't get why it's even a big deal to "live off bitcoin". Locally, it's quite easy to find restaurants and bars that take bitcoin. You can find an online merchant somewhere in the US / World that sells the other goods you need. And for the stuff you absolutely cannot find, just post on craigslist and buy it overpriced locally from some hacker who wants to make a profit at your expense. pretty dumb
  - austenallred 13y ago
    Really? I have yet to see many restaurants that accept bitcoin, especially in Provo, Utah.
    - joshmlewis 13y ago
      Yeah, exactly. No where near where I live is even close to accepting Bitcoin. I'm in the south on the east coast.
  - alexanderh 13y ago
    I don't get why crypocurrency even has to be a replacement for normal currency. I dont really think it should be BitCoin's goal to be able to 'live off of it like normal currency'. It's just another financial tool, of many. People get so religious about it, and think it has to be "the future" and " the one true currency", and that some day you'll buy milk at your local grocery store with it... I dont think that should even be the end goal. Maybe BitCoin will get there some day, but even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean its failing as a currency. Like I said, its just another tool of many, good for some things, bad for others. It's not going to replace normal currency, but it's also not going to go anywhere anytime soon IMO. Credit Cards came along, and didnt completely do away with normal currency, so it shall be with bitcoin. I wish people would stop implying that it should be a replacement for anything. (and dont get me wrong, i'm a enthusiastic user and supporter of BitCoin... I just think some people get kind of silly with where they think bitcoin going)
    - lukifer 13y ago
      Totally agree with this mindset regarding BitCoin. As with microwave ovens and tablets, some new technologies don't replace old ones, but rather occupy new niches that were previously not feasible. Put another way, I don't foresee a world in which state-backed currencies and crypto-currencies are not both useful.
    - betterunix 13y ago
      "I don't get why crypocurrency even has to be a replacement for normal currency." The entire point of Bitcoin is to replace "normal" currency. Otherwise, we could just push for Chaum-style systems, which are better designed, more secure, and allow for things like offline transfers. The point of Bitcoin is to remove central authorities, which are the very thing that make other currencies valuable (yes, even gold, which would have been little more than a rare shiny metal were it not for ancient governments).
ArchD 13y ago
The donate page lists bitcoin destination addresses for donation but the page doesn't seem to be HTTPS.
- ISL 13y ago
  It doesn't need to be. Their address isn't any different from any other public address, like 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. With Bitcoin, you can just send money to it; no form required.
  - betterunix 13y ago
    How do you know Bitcoin is non-malleable i.e. how do you know that a man-in-the-middle attacker cannot modify your Bitcoin messages so that the money is deposited to his account instead of the receiver's? Without a proof of Bitcoin's security, or even a formal security definition, it is hard to say whether or not such a thing is possible. In fact, the Bitcoin community seems to be tangentially aware of such issues: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability This is one of the reasons I say it is a near-certainty that whoever designed Bitcoin is not a cryptography expert; this sort of issue is well-understood by cryptographers and has been the subject of much research. See e.g. non-malleability in other settings: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~rafael/papers/CNMZK.pdf http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~rafael/papers/CNMZK.pdf http://people.csail.mit.edu/huijia/papers/concnmc-owf.pdf http://people.csail.mit.edu/huijia/papers/concnmc-owf.pdf
    - nicpottier 13y ago
      You do bring up a good point that a MITM attack could change the bitcoin address and trick people to donate there. This really doesn't have anything to do with bitcoin though. I don't really understand your point on malleability though. The source and destination addresses are very much part of the hash and what is signed into the blockchain, so although you could change trick people into sending bitcoins to the wrong address using a MITM, the receiver wouldn't be tricked, only the sender. (IE, they wouldn't see any transaction coming to their legitimate address) As to your point on Bitcoin not being 'expert enough', that seems like a troll. Given the monetary incentives that exist to break bitcoin, and the number of rather clever people who have given it a hard look, I think you are vastly underestimating just how solid it is. It may have weaknesses that have yet to be discovered, but they aren't trivial.
ekr 13y ago
Bitcoin has a big problem : the block chain size. Right now it is still quite unknown and still the block chain size is approaching 10GB, which means you can't use it on devices like mobile phones (without a centralized service, which somehow defeats the purpose of Bitcoins, which was supposed to be a decentralized currency). There are techniques to prune unneeded transactions, but they seem inefficient. If Bitcoins were to become popular, for example replace dollars, you could easily expect the block chain to jump to the order of TBs. About the documentary itself, I honestly don't see its point. But it's not the only Kickstarter project that seems like an attempt to make some money.

46 points by austenallred 13y ago

I wish them luck. Personally, I think they're going to have a very hard time pulling this off. I'll be keeping a close eye them though since I know the couple. No cheating Austin and Beccy ;)

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Permit 13y ago
They're not even related...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

contingencies 13y ago

Congratulations on the marriage! Cool people.

joshmlewis 13y ago

They do seem nice, but basically you're asking me to donate to a fund that is basically your wedding gift and you get to buy things and go on trips with the money me and everyone else gave you and yes you will have a difficult time, you still get the experience and at any time Bitcoins could crash or you could cash all of them in.

socialist_coder 13y ago
I don't get why it's even a big deal to "live off bitcoin". Locally, it's quite easy to find restaurants and bars that take bitcoin. You can find an online merchant somewhere in the US / World that sells the other goods you need. And for the stuff you absolutely cannot find, just post on craigslist and buy it overpriced locally from some hacker who wants to make a profit at your expense. pretty dumb
- austenallred 13y ago
  Really? I have yet to see many restaurants that accept bitcoin, especially in Provo, Utah.
  - joshmlewis 13y ago
    Yeah, exactly. No where near where I live is even close to accepting Bitcoin. I'm in the south on the east coast.
- alexanderh 13y ago
  I don't get why crypocurrency even has to be a replacement for normal currency. I dont really think it should be BitCoin's goal to be able to 'live off of it like normal currency'. It's just another financial tool, of many. People get so religious about it, and think it has to be "the future" and " the one true currency", and that some day you'll buy milk at your local grocery store with it... I dont think that should even be the end goal. Maybe BitCoin will get there some day, but even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean its failing as a currency. Like I said, its just another tool of many, good for some things, bad for others. It's not going to replace normal currency, but it's also not going to go anywhere anytime soon IMO. Credit Cards came along, and didnt completely do away with normal currency, so it shall be with bitcoin. I wish people would stop implying that it should be a replacement for anything. (and dont get me wrong, i'm a enthusiastic user and supporter of BitCoin... I just think some people get kind of silly with where they think bitcoin going)
  - lukifer 13y ago
    Totally agree with this mindset regarding BitCoin. As with microwave ovens and tablets, some new technologies don't replace old ones, but rather occupy new niches that were previously not feasible. Put another way, I don't foresee a world in which state-backed currencies and crypto-currencies are not both useful.
  - betterunix 13y ago
    "I don't get why crypocurrency even has to be a replacement for normal currency." The entire point of Bitcoin is to replace "normal" currency. Otherwise, we could just push for Chaum-style systems, which are better designed, more secure, and allow for things like offline transfers. The point of Bitcoin is to remove central authorities, which are the very thing that make other currencies valuable (yes, even gold, which would have been little more than a rare shiny metal were it not for ancient governments).

ArchD 13y ago

The donate page lists bitcoin destination addresses for donation but the page doesn't seem to be HTTPS.

ISL 13y ago
It doesn't need to be. Their address isn't any different from any other public address, like 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. With Bitcoin, you can just send money to it; no form required.
- betterunix 13y ago
  How do you know Bitcoin is non-malleable i.e. how do you know that a man-in-the-middle attacker cannot modify your Bitcoin messages so that the money is deposited to his account instead of the receiver's? Without a proof of Bitcoin's security, or even a formal security definition, it is hard to say whether or not such a thing is possible. In fact, the Bitcoin community seems to be tangentially aware of such issues: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability This is one of the reasons I say it is a near-certainty that whoever designed Bitcoin is not a cryptography expert; this sort of issue is well-understood by cryptographers and has been the subject of much research. See e.g. non-malleability in other settings: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~rafael/papers/CNMZK.pdf http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~rafael/papers/CNMZK.pdf http://people.csail.mit.edu/huijia/papers/concnmc-owf.pdf http://people.csail.mit.edu/huijia/papers/concnmc-owf.pdf
  - nicpottier 13y ago
    You do bring up a good point that a MITM attack could change the bitcoin address and trick people to donate there. This really doesn't have anything to do with bitcoin though. I don't really understand your point on malleability though. The source and destination addresses are very much part of the hash and what is signed into the blockchain, so although you could change trick people into sending bitcoins to the wrong address using a MITM, the receiver wouldn't be tricked, only the sender. (IE, they wouldn't see any transaction coming to their legitimate address) As to your point on Bitcoin not being 'expert enough', that seems like a troll. Given the monetary incentives that exist to break bitcoin, and the number of rather clever people who have given it a hard look, I think you are vastly underestimating just how solid it is. It may have weaknesses that have yet to be discovered, but they aren't trivial.

ekr 13y ago

Bitcoin has a big problem : the block chain size. Right now it is still quite unknown and still the block chain size is approaching 10GB, which means you can't use it on devices like mobile phones (without a centralized service, which somehow defeats the purpose of Bitcoins, which was supposed to be a decentralized currency). There are techniques to prune unneeded transactions, but they seem inefficient. If Bitcoins were to become popular, for example replace dollars, you could easily expect the block chain to jump to the order of TBs. About the documentary itself, I honestly don't see its point. But it's not the only Kickstarter project that seems like an attempt to make some money.