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In my opinion, he is a Traitor just like Bradley Manning for jeopardizing National Security.
by suyash 13y ago
In my opinion, he is a Traitor just like Bradley Manning for jeopardizing National Security.
- rooshdi 13y agoMeh. Better to be a traitor than a drone.
- EliRivers 13y agoIt's possible to also be a hero for jeopardising national security. Bad nations should be jeopardised. It's how they become good nations. They stay bad nations when their citizens repeat the mantras they've been taught rather than thinking. Bullshit like "My country, right or wrong" and worshipping flags and all that sort of junk. It appears that the United States is still, incredible as it seems, a country producing citizens willing to put themselves at risk when the United States is threatened (and let's be serious for a moment here - terrorism was never a threat to the United States, but this is part of an ongoing existential threat to the United States, from its own government; the very people who should be saying "Calm down, folks; times may be scary but let's not throw away our country out of fear," are instead simply competing with each other, spurring hysteria for votes and metaphorically burning the flag they bizarrely teach children to worship). Long may these citizens last.
- EthanHeilman 13y ago“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” or the full version: “I confidently trust that the American people will prove themselves … too wise not to detect the false pride or the dangerous ambitions or the selfish schemes which so often hide themselves under that deceptive cry of mock patriotism: ‘Our country, right or wrong!’ They will not fail to recognize that our dignity, our free institutions and the peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: ‘Our country—when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right.’”—Schurz, “The Policy of Imperialism,” Speeches, Correspondence and Political Papers of Carl Schurz, vol. 6, pp. 119–20 (1913). http://www.bartleby.com/73/1641.html http://www.bartleby.com/73/1641.html
- jivatmanx 13y agoI prefer this Ben Franklin quote, it address the exact same question, but takes a different position: "The deliberations of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were held in strict secrecy. Consequently, anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors. The answer was provided immediately. A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?” With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, “A republic, if you can keep it.”" (Benjamin Franklin)
- EliRivers 13y agoThe prognosis is not good. There is unquestionably a new aristocracy who are not subject to the same rules as ordinary citizens. Wealth and power is bound in small groups who assist each other in keeping it. It's never been harder to transcend a humble (i.e. poor) start and join the ranks of wealth and power, so the lines between aristocracy and peasant are being solidified (although you wouldn't know it from the propaganda I hear, and in some places it really is just plain propaganda; I used to hear on US radio, just from out-of-nowhere, what were essentially sixty second propaganda pieces describing some guy who made a fortune in business). While it's still a voting republic, the monied use that money to teach the poor how to vote (predictably, in a way that means they get to keep their money and power).
- godgod 13y agoNational security...give me a break. "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." - Benjamin Franklin Make no mistake, we live in very dangerous world but it's now clear that the danger is being generated or at least perpetuated by the US government. The war on terror is a lie. We're openly funding terror. The police state is here. The industrial military complex war machine will never stop. The Patriot act is a danger to free people everywhere. What's wrong with getting a warrant? Due process and the US constitution is dead and you are okay with that? He is not Bradley Manning. Bradley Manning leak may have caused people to get killed. Some people don't want to live in a world where they are not free. You may be fine with that...I'm not.
- stevepotter 13y agoThe actual Franklin quote is "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Your version is paraphrased. The "essential" and "a little temporary" I believe are part of this debate. I'm deeply opposed to this blanket surveillance by the way.
- wycats 13y agoAlso Jefferson: "A strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means"
- grecy 13y agoHow does letting everyone know the government is listening jeopardize National Security? If anything, I expect it would increase National Security, as everyone will toe the line more and more for fear of getting caught.
- suyash 13y agoThose who are concerned about privacy should first protest against Google/Facebook/Yahoo etc for selling your private data to advertisers. PRSIM project was in place to catch potential terrorists and thanks to Snowden for blowing it up and now good luck catching the bad guys. I have nothing to worry about or hide because I'm not doing anything bad and I don't understand why everyone is so mad about privacy all of a sudden, do you have anything to hide, are you doing anything bad? Govt is at least not selling your data to 3rd parties like corporations do by giving it to advertisers. If anything I trust my data with the govt.
- icebraining 13y agoThe government couldn't keep thousands of diplomatic cables, videos, the War logs and now the existence of PRISM confidential. What makes you so confident that someone who as the same access has this guy did isn't selling your data to companies for his own personal benefit? If you think this guy is dangerous, how can you be OK with the NSA collecting all this data about you, when they trust dangerous people with it?
- cmiles74 13y agoYou don't _think_ you have anything to hide. I'm sure if you found yourself under suspicion there would be plenty of bits and pieces in your telephone and internet history to paint you as someone who couldn't be trusted. Or worse.
- tsotha 13y agoEven if you think, as I do, Manning should have the book thrown at him, the Snowden case is quite a bit different. For one thing, Manning took a bunch of classified data he couldn't possibly have gone through in any detail and dumped it on the internet. People probably died as a result, and certainly it hurt US diplomatic efforts. It only takes five minutes of reading before you realize Bradly Manning has psychological problems and should never have been allowed access to anything important, and his data dump was probably more about his personal problems than it was about any kind of principle. Snowden's case is quite a bit different. He only released details about the program he was familiar with. Clearly he broke the law and clearly he's forsworn, but IMO you can make a much better case for leniency or even a pardon. Given the way this administration has been going after leakers (would have been the sign of Hitler's second coming had it been Bush) he shouldn't hold his breath expecting a pardon.
- Tangaroa 13y agoI disagree, but I gave you an upvote because your mindless rhetoric is as equally valuable and informative to this conversation as the other mindless rhetoric posts that do nothing more than agree with TFA and yet have not been marked down as far as your post.