4 ms·

Agreed. Did they do any kind of usability / legibility studies on the thinner typeface? I mean, I mostly use my phone to read email. Why would they reduce contr

by bcks 13y ago

Agreed. Did they do any kind of usability / legibility studies on the thinner typeface? I mean, I mostly use my phone to read email. Why would they reduce contrast on the default text and make it even harder to read?! Just because you have higher resolution screens, doesn't mean you can get away with a thinner sans serif. What's the point if everyone has to increase the size of the text to read it?

munificent 13y ago
> Just because you have higher resolution screens, doesn't mean you can get away with a thinner sans serif. Yes, it does, actually. As resolution increases, so does the Nyquist frequency, which means you can accurately convey higher-frequency signals. In spatial terms, more resolution means finer lines without aliasing errors.
- intrazoo 13y ago
  Surely there is a hard limit on this though (unless we have bionic eyes and/or small expanding robot fingers (like in ghost in the shell (http://youtu.be/PkyZGZRnQb4)) http://youtu.be/PkyZGZRnQb4)))
  - munificent 13y ago
    Certainly, there is. Laser printers print at about 300 dpi and most users can't see any visible pixels there, so at normal reading distance, that seems to be close to the maximum resolution you need to visibly pixel-free from the user's perspective. Going higher than that probably means thinner blank lines will just appear fainter and not thinner.
- typoking 13y ago
  A 0.01mm line is going to be invisible on a super high res is going to be pretty much invisible, regardless of Nyquist frequencies.
rabino 13y ago
Are you seriously asking if Apple did usability testing for a design decision? Really?
- JEVLON 13y ago
  Comments with "Really?" on the end are extremely disrespectful, and I see it all the time. Just because something is obvious and common-sense to you, does not mean it is to someone else. Offending someone is not a good form of persuasion. Please consider not doing that in future because you probably do have good ideas, and it would be nice if people heard them. Speaking of this design, the icons are asymmetric. More so by the unharmonious colour selection. However, the notification centre and animations are well done.
  - rabino 13y ago
    Good point about the 'really?', wasn't trying to get that effect.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  Rabino - I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. I'm trying to understand if you are commenting on Apple's well known philosophy of not engaging in any form of end-user design engagement, or whether you believe that a company of Apple's stature would absolutely engage in usability testing. A lot (many? most?) of Apple's design decisions are made by designers who create the best product, based on a combination of their intuition, design sense, and overriding design principles. Some application (Podcast App) - have clearly never seen any form of usability testing prior to release.
  - montagg 13y ago
    I've seen more than one poorly designed, poorly executed product go to market with lots of user testing. I'd love to have someone from Apple comment on their design process, because it's really just conjecture that they do or don't usability test their products, but I'm not holding my breath.
awj 13y ago
> Agreed. Did they do any kind of usability / legibility studies on the thinner typeface? No, of course they didn't. Apple is widely acknowledged in the industry as having amateurish design and an utter lack of anything resembling perfectionism or attention to detail. Seriously, this may be a flop from them, but I cannot comprehend the mindset that would surmise they did no usability testing off a few screenshots.
- gurkendoktor 13y ago
  If they did usability testing with a wide range of people, I am pretty sure one of them would have leaked the design. I'm not sure how would have done usability testing with non-employees.
- montagg 13y ago
  > Apple is widely acknowledged in the industry as having amateurish design and an utter lack of anything resembling perfectionism or attention to detail. I would love to see your source on this one, because I never stop hearing the opposite.
  - elliottkember 13y ago
    Whoosh
nicholassmith 13y ago
Apple has significantly invested in accessibility technologies for iOS and OS X. The tail doesn't wag the dog, but I don't think they'll have out and out ignored accessibility concerns (legibility and usability for larger numbers) after convincing developers to go down that route.
- gurkendoktor 13y ago
  One HN posting I just remembered from a while ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4590615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4590615
fudged71 13y ago
Thinner type and fullscreen layouts make the screen "look bigger" since they're too stubborn to make their phones human sized.

by bcks 13y ago

munificent 13y ago

> Just because you have higher resolution screens, doesn't mean you can get away with a thinner sans serif. Yes, it does, actually. As resolution increases, so does the Nyquist frequency, which means you can accurately convey higher-frequency signals. In spatial terms, more resolution means finer lines without aliasing errors.

intrazoo 13y ago
Surely there is a hard limit on this though (unless we have bionic eyes and/or small expanding robot fingers (like in ghost in the shell (http://youtu.be/PkyZGZRnQb4)) http://youtu.be/PkyZGZRnQb4)))
- munificent 13y ago
  Certainly, there is. Laser printers print at about 300 dpi and most users can't see any visible pixels there, so at normal reading distance, that seems to be close to the maximum resolution you need to visibly pixel-free from the user's perspective. Going higher than that probably means thinner blank lines will just appear fainter and not thinner.
typoking 13y ago
A 0.01mm line is going to be invisible on a super high res is going to be pretty much invisible, regardless of Nyquist frequencies.

rabino 13y ago

Are you seriously asking if Apple did usability testing for a design decision? Really?

JEVLON 13y ago
Comments with "Really?" on the end are extremely disrespectful, and I see it all the time. Just because something is obvious and common-sense to you, does not mean it is to someone else. Offending someone is not a good form of persuasion. Please consider not doing that in future because you probably do have good ideas, and it would be nice if people heard them. Speaking of this design, the icons are asymmetric. More so by the unharmonious colour selection. However, the notification centre and animations are well done.
- rabino 13y ago
  Good point about the 'really?', wasn't trying to get that effect.
ghshephard 13y ago
Rabino - I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. I'm trying to understand if you are commenting on Apple's well known philosophy of not engaging in any form of end-user design engagement, or whether you believe that a company of Apple's stature would absolutely engage in usability testing. A lot (many? most?) of Apple's design decisions are made by designers who create the best product, based on a combination of their intuition, design sense, and overriding design principles. Some application (Podcast App) - have clearly never seen any form of usability testing prior to release.
- montagg 13y ago
  I've seen more than one poorly designed, poorly executed product go to market with lots of user testing. I'd love to have someone from Apple comment on their design process, because it's really just conjecture that they do or don't usability test their products, but I'm not holding my breath.

awj 13y ago

> Agreed. Did they do any kind of usability / legibility studies on the thinner typeface? No, of course they didn't. Apple is widely acknowledged in the industry as having amateurish design and an utter lack of anything resembling perfectionism or attention to detail. Seriously, this may be a flop from them, but I cannot comprehend the mindset that would surmise they did no usability testing off a few screenshots.

gurkendoktor 13y ago
If they did usability testing with a wide range of people, I am pretty sure one of them would have leaked the design. I'm not sure how would have done usability testing with non-employees.
montagg 13y ago
> Apple is widely acknowledged in the industry as having amateurish design and an utter lack of anything resembling perfectionism or attention to detail. I would love to see your source on this one, because I never stop hearing the opposite.
- elliottkember 13y ago
  Whoosh

nicholassmith 13y ago

Apple has significantly invested in accessibility technologies for iOS and OS X. The tail doesn't wag the dog, but I don't think they'll have out and out ignored accessibility concerns (legibility and usability for larger numbers) after convincing developers to go down that route.

gurkendoktor 13y ago
One HN posting I just remembered from a while ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4590615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4590615

fudged71 13y ago

Thinner type and fullscreen layouts make the screen "look bigger" since they're too stubborn to make their phones human sized.