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> Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. Looks like false attribution according to wikiquote. (Why do people feel the need to

> Thomas Jefferson: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty. Looks like false attribution according to wikiquote. (Why do people feel the need to use proof by authority anyway? Either a thing is right, or it is insightful, but attributing it to dead 18th century rebels does not bolster the case.) ________________________________ When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Falsely attributed to Thomas Jefferson; first attributed to Jefferson in Gyeorgos C. Hatonn, It's All in the Game: Butterflies, Mind Control--The Razor's Edge‎ (1994), p. 214. A 1912 issue of The American Anti-socialist attributes the re-ordered form, "Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty", to John Basil Barnhill. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_...

justin66 13y ago
> Why do people feel the need to use proof by authority anyway? Either a thing is right, or it is insightful, but attributing it to dead 18th rebels does not bolster the case. There's at least one completely made up Orwell quote that gets kicked around quite a bit by conservatives. ("rough men") That one is weird: you'd think those people would be happy to NOT quote Orwell if they knew anything about his politics. I assume it's less about argument from authority and more about just a lack of eloquence or confidence on the part of the person relying on quotations to make their point.
- jpdoctor 13y ago
  > I assume it's less about argument from authority and more about just a lack of eloquence or confidence on the part of the person relying on quotations to make their point. That's probably right. Hell, it's part of the reason that Hallmark greeting cards will always have a viable business model.
  - justin66 13y ago
    I really don't mind it when it's just meant to amuse people or send a nice message. When people try to engage in a battle of ideas and they rely so directly on borrowed wisdom, it can make for a boring time.
    - jpdoctor 13y ago
      > it can make for a boring time. Agreed. I also doubt that we'll ever see: John Basil Barnhill: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty., since poor John Basil had the misfortune of not being as well known as Thomas Jefferson.
mcgwiz 13y ago
Misattribution corroborated by the Thomas Jefferson Foundation. http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/when-government-fears-people-there-libertyquotation http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/when-government-fea...

justin66 13y ago

> Why do people feel the need to use proof by authority anyway? Either a thing is right, or it is insightful, but attributing it to dead 18th rebels does not bolster the case. There's at least one completely made up Orwell quote that gets kicked around quite a bit by conservatives. ("rough men") That one is weird: you'd think those people would be happy to NOT quote Orwell if they knew anything about his politics. I assume it's less about argument from authority and more about just a lack of eloquence or confidence on the part of the person relying on quotations to make their point.

jpdoctor 13y ago
> I assume it's less about argument from authority and more about just a lack of eloquence or confidence on the part of the person relying on quotations to make their point. That's probably right. Hell, it's part of the reason that Hallmark greeting cards will always have a viable business model.
- justin66 13y ago
  I really don't mind it when it's just meant to amuse people or send a nice message. When people try to engage in a battle of ideas and they rely so directly on borrowed wisdom, it can make for a boring time.
  - jpdoctor 13y ago
    > it can make for a boring time. Agreed. I also doubt that we'll ever see: John Basil Barnhill: ""When governments fear the people, there is liberty., since poor John Basil had the misfortune of not being as well known as Thomas Jefferson.

mcgwiz 13y ago

Misattribution corroborated by the Thomas Jefferson Foundation. http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/when-government-fears-people-there-libertyquotation http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/when-government-fea...